===FILE=== 1UlDa-OJYxE - Is  SPIN Selling still relevant Interview with Neil Rackham.txt
https://youtu.be/1UlDa-OJYxE
Is  SPIN® Selling still relevant？ Interview with Neil Rackham

[0:04] the spin model is about understanding [0:08] I suppose the breakthrough with spin was [0:12] it's no longer about persuading [0:14] customers people persuade themselves [0:17] it's about really understanding them and [0:20] their needs so they could do a good job [0:23] of creating value that hasn't changed [0:26] but some other things have changed which [0:30] make the spin model probably more [0:32] relevant today than it was thirty years [0:35] ago one of those things is that the [0:39] products have become commodities so that [0:41] salespeople are the differentiator [0:43] if salespeople the differentiator then [0:46] how do they differentiate they [0:47] differentiate by really understanding [0:49] the customer much more deeply than the [0:52] competition by being able to create new [0:54] creative solutions by being able to [0:57] bring value and the spin models are very [0:59] helpful way to do that but we are in the [1:03] 21st century and the spin models got to [1:06] change way back when we did the original [1:10] spin research we found that situation [1:13] questions questions about fact were [1:16] slightly negatively correlated with [1:19] success you could ask too many often [1:22] today they're actively positively [1:27] negatively correlated that is if you ask [1:30] a lot of situation questions and the [1:32] customer will come really impatient [1:34] they'll say you should have done your [1:35] homework you should have known that [1:37] because a lot of the things that you [1:39] found out with a spin model 30 years ago [1:42] you found out face to face with the [1:44] customer because there was no other way [1:46] to do it today [1:49] you can research that you don't have to [1:52] ask those many situation questions so [1:54] situation questions change problem [1:57] questions change to one of the things [2:00] which we found 30 years ago was if you [2:05] ask customers about problems you find [2:08] out their needs you find out information [2:11] which helps you sell which helps them [2:13] understand their own problems you get [2:16] into areas where they have [2:18] and where they have interest but in [2:22] those days it was enough to ask problems [2:26] about how things are now you could ask [2:32] problem questions like are you happy [2:35] with your present supplier are you [2:39] getting the right kind of performance [2:40] out of the equipment you're using to get [2:45] the right service levels 24/7 from your [2:51] your present way of doing things your to [2:54] uncover problems that way no what's [2:59] happened is this those problem questions [3:02] aren't quite as easy to ask and surefire [3:07] as they used to be if you say do you [3:10] have problems with your present [3:12] equipment know most people say no it's [3:15] working okay whereas 30 years ago when [3:18] things were much less reliable you could [3:20] be pretty sure there'd be an answer [3:22] there that you could use so that's one [3:25] change but another change is this is a [3:28] curious one research done in the last [3:31] three or four years shows that customers [3:34] rate the added value of salespeople as [3:39] highest when salespeople ask about [3:42] future problems not just about present [3:46] problems I remember I interviewed one [3:49] buyer in this research and he said to me [3:52] you know if I fall into a pit there's 50 [3:56] salespeople who can sell me a ladder to [3:58] help me climb out there's only one in 50 [4:00] who can stop me from falling into the [4:02] pit in the first place there's a way of [4:05] saying I'm interested in people who can [4:08] help me with the problems that have not [4:10] yet occurred not just the problems that [4:12] have occurred so that's how problem [4:15] questions change in this new world of [4:18] selling spinning in the 21st century [4:21] implication questions are even more [4:25] important now than they were when we [4:28] first did this implication quest [4:31] proved to be most powerful in the [4:33] original research when people were [4:35] selling complex solutions the solutions [4:39] today compared with 30 years ago are [4:42] even more complex it's even more [4:45] important to ask implication questions [4:47] and finally need payoff questions [4:50] questions about value we live in a world [4:53] driven by value almost the definition of [4:57] selling today is creating customer value [5:00] and how could you create it if you don't [5:03] ask about it so neat payoff questions [5:05] are as powerful or more powerful today [5:08] in the 21st century they were back in [5:11] the 20th century when we discovered the [5:13] spin model

===FILE=== 9IXcrP46BDk - Neil Rackham - How should sellers apply SPIN Selling questions.txt
https://youtu.be/9IXcrP46BDk
Neil Rackham - How should sellers apply SPIN® Selling questions

[0:02] we will look for magic bullets we don't [0:06] like to use the answers but the promised [0:10] skills is there aren't easy answers [0:14] there's only a lot of practice a lot of [0:19] repetition and it doesn't come quickly [0:25] I've known people read the spin model [0:28] saying right I've got it I understand it [0:31] four types of questions this just like [0:34] saying golf I've got it 18 holes you [0:37] just hit the ball in to all 18 that's it [0:39] got it now pick up some try it and lo [0:44] and behold the ball doesn't easily go [0:46] into all those 18 holes now what's the [0:49] answer there well the answer is L any [0:54] skill whatever it is requires a lot of [0:57] practice of basic basic things let me [1:02] give you some advice about the practice [1:04] that's needed to make the spin model [1:06] work I've seen many many people who've [1:10] tried it once and it didn't work for [1:14] them and so they've given it up any new [1:18] skill whatever it is by definition isn't [1:22] comfortable the first time you try it [1:24] everybody who was comfortable you were [1:25] probably doing it already

===FILE=== DS2e0OB1eTY - Neil Rackham - World-Renowned Authority on Professional Selling.txt
https://youtu.be/DS2e0OB1eTY
Neil Rackham - World-Renowned Authority on Professional Selling

[0:01] now i'm going to try to keep us all [0:05] awake and alive by making my [0:07] presentation very interactive [0:09] i'm going to put on the screen things [0:11] called station breaks [0:13] and whenever you see a station break [0:15] i'm going to invite you [0:17] to turn to one or two people next to you [0:19] in front of you behind you and discuss [0:21] the topic that's on the screen [0:23] and then i'll talk more about it myself [0:25] because i i don't know how you learn i [0:28] can't learn by listening anymore maybe [0:29] i'm just getting old or something [0:31] but for me i learned by arguing the [0:34] thing myself talking about it thinking [0:36] about it and that's what i'm going to [0:38] invite you to do so there will be a [0:40] number of station breaks [0:42] and in fact [0:43] we we should practice one right now [0:46] um here's here's the first one and if [0:48] you if you [0:49] had looked at this [0:51] question [0:52] just a few years ago [0:54] you could very easily have said oh [&nbsp;__&nbsp;] [0:56] this is going to be a really long [0:58] morning [0:59] because [1:01] could you possibly imagine a dumber [1:04] question than what's the purpose of a [1:05] sales force [1:07] but that's not such a dumb question [1:09] anymore i i run [1:11] a session for ceos of public companies [1:14] who are interested in sales and [1:15] marketing issues a couple of years ago [1:17] they were asking me questions like how [1:19] do we compensate technical and support [1:21] people who are playing a role in the [1:23] sale [1:24] or you know how do we how do we manage [1:26] big global accounts and cut that with [1:29] our our local geographies [1:31] questions like these are about [1:33] how you do a little bit better of what [1:35] we're doing already [1:37] the last one i ran the very first [1:38] question was do i need a sales force at [1:40] all [1:42] that's a more serious question and [1:43] that's all about well what is the [1:45] purpose of a sales force [1:47] so i'm just going to invite you to talk [1:49] to some people around you about just [1:52] that topic what is the purpose of a [1:54] sales force and then i'll discuss it [1:56] with you so let's try station break [2:12] okay [2:15] i uh i i heard a number of answers from [2:18] you um [2:20] most of them sounded pretty reasonable [2:23] the the answer the purpose [2:26] of a a sales force is is to make sales [2:30] is not necessarily the deepest answer [2:32] you could have but um hey [2:35] let's let's have a look at typically how [2:37] people answer this question [2:40] um [2:41] it's to make sure the customers got the [2:42] right information [2:44] uh about your products at the right time [2:46] in order to influence a purchasing [2:47] decision [2:48] okay let's look at another one [2:51] convinces customers to buy from you [2:54] by showing that you're better in some [2:56] way differentiates you okay [3:01] it shows that you've got something [3:02] worthwhile that meets customer needs [3:05] i i think that's reasonable i i like [3:07] this one [3:08] it's it's a translator it puts it puts [3:11] stuff into the customer's language [3:13] and that sort of makes sense last one [3:16] here the purpose of the sales force is [3:18] to communicate to customers the value of [3:20] your offerings [3:23] okay [3:24] that's uh [3:25] and that again is a reasonable statement [3:28] i'm going to be suggesting to you that [3:30] all those five [3:32] statements i showed on the screen have [3:34] something in common and they'd probably [3:36] rather like some of the things you were [3:37] saying [3:39] every one of those five is about the [3:41] idea that the role of the sales force is [3:44] is to communicate [3:46] value [3:48] to show the customers that we have this [3:50] mousetrap and this mousetrap is better [3:54] i'm also going to be suggesting to you [3:56] that's yesterday's purpose for [3:57] salesforce [3:59] if all that you do [4:02] is you communicate to customers how [4:04] great your products and services are [4:07] you're probably not going to cut it [4:09] in fact my co-author and i [4:12] did a lot of research into [4:14] the probable future numbers of people in [4:16] business to business sales today there's [4:19] about 19 million people employed in the [4:22] united states in business to business [4:24] selling [4:25] we think that's going to drop to about [4:26] 10 million within the next five years [4:29] and the reason why it's going to drop to [4:31] 10 million [4:32] is an awful lot of people will never get [4:34] away from the idea that selling [4:37] is about communicating to customers [4:40] that you have a great product or service [4:43] selling is actually much more than that [4:45] and will be more than that in the future [4:47] and i want to talk about it [4:48] because what you're talking about here [4:51] is how do we [4:53] add more than the mousetrap already has [4:56] what is it that we do when we sell that [4:59] add something that the customer values [5:01] which will tip the sale in our favor [5:04] where if we can do it [5:06] and a competitor can't do it as well as [5:08] us [5:08] even if they could copy our products and [5:11] services [5:12] we would be the ones who get the [5:14] business [5:15] and that's [5:16] really worth thinking about [5:18] in fact it's it's so important [5:21] that one of the things i'll do is when [5:23] i'm working with an organization [5:25] to you know try and help move sales [5:28] forward and [5:30] the one the first things i'll do is i'll [5:32] make sure that [5:33] in everyone's mind is the question [5:36] before i go out on a major call [5:39] is the customer going to write me a [5:41] check for the call i'm just about to [5:42] make

===FILE=== Jt1Q3ftqLl4 - The Science of Sales.txt
https://youtu.be/Jt1Q3ftqLl4
The Science of Sales

[0:04] [Music] [0:09] in the old days the business theory was [0:12] make a better mousetrap and the world [0:14] will come to your door that's fine if my [0:18] mousetrap is unique because all the [0:20] value lies in a mousetrap [0:22] when all my salespeople have to do is go [0:25] out and communicate to customers what a [0:26] fabulous mousetrap this is now [0:30] fast-forward to the real world today my [0:33] salesperson goes in and says we have [0:35] this fabulous mousetrap this cousin [0:37] titanium spring and the customer says [0:39] look I don't give two hoots budget to [0:42] tinium to spring this 40 different types [0:44] of most traps on the market this [0:46] ultrasonic traps and glue traps and this [0:49] trap and that trap all I want is dead [0:51] mice cheap now under those circumstances [0:54] there's not enough value in the product [0:56] for the most trap salesperson to make a [0:59] sales so what what do you do in this [1:02] world and the answer is the mousetrap [1:04] salesperson has to provide extra value [1:08] they have to show how to use the [1:10] mousetrap they have to advise they have [1:13] to design perhaps a special type of [1:15] mouse trap in other words what they have [1:17] to do is create extra value now in sales [1:21] forces across the world you would be [1:24] lucky if 50% of the sales people can [1:26] live in the world of value creation [1:29] because they've been brought up as value [1:31] communicators they see their job as [1:33] saying we have this product and it's a [1:35] fabulous product and customers don't [1:38] want that they'll say if I want to find [1:40] out about your product I can go online I [1:42] can discover that in the new world [1:45] selling is the role of managing the [1:48] interface between your company and other [1:50] companies and customers now that's what [1:54] salespeople are there to do [2:03] [Music] [2:08] today the most successful salespeople [2:11] are seen by their clients as partners [2:13] trusted advisors their value lies in [2:18] their ability to solve problems in sales [2:22] were seen as shift from art to science [2:27] attempts to integrate scientific methods [2:29] and sales actually started in the 1890s [2:32] it wasn't taken seriously because sales [2:35] had always been seen as an art built on [2:38] the power of persuasion it would take [2:41] another hundred years before science and [2:43] sales share the same space [2:47] [Music] [2:52] it wasn't really until some seminal work [2:55] by Neil Rackham who actually put [2:58] together a team for IBM and Xerox that [3:01] went along on 3,000 sales calls with [3:04] salespeople and they documented the [3:07] different techniques they were using and [3:09] which ones worked more effectively that [3:11] led to his book what's been selling and [3:14] it's still used frequently today so [3:17] research comes in just like it would in [3:19] pharmaceutical research or medical [3:20] research you bring the science to sales [3:23] the same way that becomes now the first [3:26] type of professionalization science [3:29] professional credentials [3:31] this is sales how complex can it be the [3:37] public really needs to understand that [3:40] it's really hard to build a successful [3:43] sales point it's not unusual for an [3:45] insurance company have 60,000 people in [3:47] that selling organization that's where [3:50] we get to the complexity sales is about [3:53] people who are interacting with [3:56] customers driving outcomes it's [4:00] unobserved so as people are totally [4:04] unobserved so I got to worry about who [4:06] these people are and I got worried about [4:08] what they do okay and how they get [4:10] managed the number of decisions required [4:13] in order to make that thing work well [4:15] our numerous I've got worried about how [4:18] I hire I gotta worry about how I train I [4:20] select my manager how I coach I gotta [4:23] worry about how I pay people how I set [4:26] goals performance management I gotta [4:28] worry about how I size my sales force I [4:31] structure it where I locate my people I [4:33] gotta worry about how to target I gotta [4:35] worry about how to dot set down a [4:37] selling process [4:39] the skills required to do that spend [4:42] analytics and spans psychology it's just [4:45] all over the board how can we imagine [4:47] that we can be doing it right okay with [4:51] all of that complexity at IBM we [4:54] evaluated the characteristics of the top [4:57] 100 sales organizations and we [4:59] systematically broke down these [5:01] characteristics in order to create a [5:03] framework and we created this initially [5:06] so that we could construct our own [5:07] transformation based on a model like [5:10] that and what we found was it was about [5:12] process about methodology was about [5:15] using technology to make things easier [5:19] for people to do their jobs when I went [5:23] to China my presentation was the science [5:27] of sales not the art of sales at the [5:29] science of sales I don't think that [5:31] people often look at sales as a science [5:39] even some salespeople are reluctant to [5:42] recognize the changing emphasis in their [5:44] field why because it means a radical [5:47] shift in priorities problem solving [5:50] becomes much more important than [5:52] persuasion creativity outweighs the [5:55] traditional skills and many legacy [5:58] salespeople [5:59] are prepared for [6:01] we need to look at the whole sales model [6:03] from a different perspective there are a [6:05] lot of people that have gone through the [6:09] same selling process for 30 years they [6:12] do not have 30 years worth of experience [6:14] they've one year worth of experience 30 [6:17] times over and those people need to wake [6:20] up the salesperson of the future has got [6:25] to have many more facets than [6:28] salespeople the past you're gonna have [6:31] to specialize to move on what a surgeon [6:33] does is very different than what an [6:35] oncologist does and the expertise the [6:37] skill the knowledge base they're working [6:39] from a very different sales is the same [6:41] thing world-class benchmark research [6:43] actually identified 13 different kinds [6:46] of sales as you look at each one of the [6:50] core components of what makes a company [6:52] effective selling requires its own [6:54] specialization and it requires its own [6:56] academia to take that to the next level [6:59] [Music] [7:04] sales experts say that getting to the [7:06] next level starts here [7:09] typically you have these stereotypes of [7:12] salespeople and we're out working with [7:15] students to get them to understand that [7:17] there is a science to sell it's not [7:20] about just glad-handing and smiling [7:22] there's a lot more to it than that [7:24] so what we do is we teach them how to [7:27] look at accounts strategically so they [7:29] have a much deeper understanding of [7:31] what's going on so that when they look [7:33] at a customer's business they can think [7:36] more holistically about how they can [7:39] impact that business and we really [7:41] practice this idea of not closing the [7:44] sale we talk about completing the [7:46] transaction but it's really opening the [7:48] relationship and we're very serious [7:49] about that because the other statistics [7:53] will show us that you actually get more [7:55] business from some of your repeat [7:57] customers then going to new customers so [8:01] we balance the idea of acquiring new [8:04] customers and retaining your existing [8:06] customers we're out changing the way [8:08] people sell [8:12] [Music] [8:17] everybody in this world is a lot more [8:19] connected everybody's on the web there's [8:22] the sense of what I'll call Internet [8:24] time which is sales people need to [8:26] respond quickly need to leverage the web [8:29] and leverage the collective resources in [8:31] your company we live in a world where [8:33] what's happening is interconnection and [8:36] salespeople are the connectors the first [8:40] connection salespeople need to make is [8:42] with potential buyers and the past about [8:46] 80% of the prospects came through the [8:49] efforts of the sales person making call [8:51] calls and there was very tedious and [8:53] very time-consuming now it's very simple [8:56] if you want to prospect more effectively [8:59] than you use Hoover's you use LinkedIn [9:01] you use inside view so now you're able [9:05] to search by person by company ask [9:07] questions join groups join associations [9:09] great ways to network you can actually [9:12] have utilities that where you can set [9:13] triggers if somebody purchases something [9:16] or has bids out what if somebody hires [9:20] somebody new you know what is happening [9:23] so you know the activating events and [9:26] then you make a call because if I call [9:29] you on the phone and a cold call I don't [9:30] know you you don't know me [9:32] I have no trust at that point if I can [9:35] move up that you know trust ladder you [9:38] know if it's zero to ten ladder if I can [9:39] start at a for my opportunity is a [9:42] salesperson is much greater than I may [9:45] be able to help you by providing a [9:47] solution that each your needs in the [9:51] past finding a serious prospect to [9:54] trigger a Pavlovian response they cannot [9:57] rely on the individual salesperson [10:01] saying this smells like a good one to me [10:03] I think we could get this they have to [10:05] have some model they have to have some [10:07] data and what's happening is all along [10:11] that chain from which opportunities we [10:14] should go for to what kind of team [10:17] should we put in to get it there's a [10:20] much more analytical approach because [10:22] things are so consequential [10:26] in IBM Global Services for example it [10:29] costs on average four hundred and eighty [10:31] thousand dollars to go after a piece of [10:35] business so if you chase an opportunity [10:37] half a million has gone down the drain [10:40] there's a real issue here more and more [10:43] about the huge cost of sales and the [10:46] winners aren't winning because just of [10:51] how they sell it's out of how they [10:53] decide not to sell they don't waste [10:56] their resources by selling to twice as [11:01] many people in half the depths what they [11:04] do instead is they say where are we most [11:06] likely to win let's over resource that [11:09] opportunity and let's get the business [11:11] I remember when IBM made a sale to [11:13] Monsanto to maintain 27,000 desktops [11:18] worldwide that was worth 1.2 billion [11:20] dollars that's worth willing in the [11:24] business of business world increasingly [11:26] we're finding that company buy-in teams [11:28] it's really one individual anymore that [11:31] makes that decision it's normally a team [11:34] used for their expertise and might have [11:36] complementary capabilities in the [11:38] decision process the companies cannot [11:40] afford to make bad acquisition decisions [11:43] at the moment and I think this is [11:44] therefore driving the need for team [11:46] selling so sales forces are are having [11:48] to change and frankly I think they'd [11:50] have to change whether the technology [11:52] was there or not for what the technology [11:55] is doing or should be doing is enabling [11:58] the changes facilitating and supporting [12:00] approach it comes down to how our [12:04] customers buying how do they want to [12:06] communicate with you if you continue [12:08] behaving in the same ways selling in the [12:11] same ways the revenue is going to drop [12:13] off [12:19] today the Internet is a massive revenue [12:22] generator and companies are using new [12:24] technology to maximize their web-based [12:26] opportunities there's a technology [12:30] called genius.com where you can TiVo the [12:34] clients tracks on your website the [12:37] clients leave little digital footprints [12:39] on your side and then you can interpret [12:42] the activity and then conclude how [12:44] interested their client is deciphering [12:47] digital clues can provide insight to a [12:50] customer's intent this can be helpful [12:52] whether you're selling shoes or complex [12:54] services let's say the company sends out [12:58] an email with white paper that people [13:01] can download and then you have a tool [13:04] that actually notifies you when a [13:06] customer opens that white paper and will [13:09] tell you how long their customer stays [13:11] on the website [13:12] so once salespeople figure out that this [13:16] is actually going to help them to get to [13:19] prospects much quicker than sales people [13:21] will buy in and while people tend to [13:24] think that web sales are consumer sales [13:27] that's changing two years ago IBM had a [13:31] procurement budget of about 42 billion [13:33] and more than 30 billion of that was [13:36] spent online so it's not just consumers [13:39] it's also businesses are using that [13:42] internet channel for the majority of [13:44] their purchases where does that leave [13:47] the salesperson [13:49] it leaves the salesperson doing [13:51] something more complex being a skilled [13:54] and knowledgeable value creator to that [13:57] in customer relationship management or [14:00] CRM has become a critical aspect of [14:03] sales companies gather every shred of [14:06] data they can about the customer their [14:09] goal build a complete 360 degree view of [14:13] their customers business it's simple [14:16] they want to anticipate every possible [14:19] way they can distinguish themselves by [14:22] adding value to their customers business [14:25] but when CRM systems first appeared they [14:28] weren't exactly user-friendly the [14:31] technology in those times was clunky [14:34] sort of expensive on-premise software [14:36] that was difficult to install took many [14:39] months to install and in the end was not [14:44] easy to use and so there wasn't a lot of [14:45] adoption in the industry the solution [14:49] was to make seorim programs more [14:50] intuitive and less time consuming the [14:53] business were in is basically taking the [14:56] technology out of the web so salespeople [14:58] can focus on yourself that information [15:01] allows you the ability to solve a [15:04] customer's problem just prior to walking [15:06] into his office if you know there's a [15:08] credit problem if you know there's a [15:10] shipping problem you can address that [15:11] before you begin your discussion it [15:14] allows you to respect your client a [15:16] great deal more and by being prepared [15:18] for the call and that time will be more [15:21] relationship building than it will be [15:23] selling focused in the past salespeople [15:29] had a big advantage in a big [15:31] disadvantage the advantage was they were [15:34] closest to customers no one had as [15:37] intimate an understanding of the [15:38] customers the salesperson the [15:41] disadvantage was they couldn't aggregate [15:43] that experience so they had the [15:46] experience in them but you couldn't [15:48] share it all across a sales force all [15:50] across a company the mathematical [15:53] modeling the data collection and data [15:55] mining that goes on is increasingly to [15:58] try to aggregate the experiences or [16:00] sales [16:01] it's whole companies that need to sell [16:04] in fact when you start to peel back the [16:06] layers of why some companies are more [16:08] successful than others it's because [16:09] they're engaging the talent from inside [16:12] the company right so you have access to [16:14] the CEO you have access to subject [16:16] matter experts that are required to make [16:19] you credible in front of your customer [16:23] making information quickly easily [16:25] accessible make sales organizations [16:28] faster smarter and more effective [16:31] there's a company called Szabo and they [16:35] help sales organizations harvest the [16:38] collective intelligence of the [16:40] organization so all the best proposals [16:42] are stored all the best articles about [16:45] the company's products are stored [16:47] there's a list of all the internal [16:50] experts of the company so it's all in [16:53] one database that's searchable this is [16:56] the interesting part sales people can [16:58] add their own information contribute [17:02] their best practices to that website and [17:05] they can raid other people's articles so [17:09] there's a rating system where the most [17:11] valuable information rises to the top [17:14] and it sells people don't have to search [17:16] for three or four hours before a [17:18] presentation but they do it in 10-15 [17:21] minutes our knowledge network technology [17:23] allows us to take questions that are [17:25] asked by an individual post those [17:27] answers from subject matter experts to [17:29] the entire organization so they only [17:31] have to be asked at one time the ability [17:34] to archive massive amounts of data and [17:36] search by common phrases and words is [17:38] arguable if you will to the world that [17:42] we operate in on a daily basis or our [17:44] industry not only is the depth of shared [17:47] information unprecedented it's being [17:49] accessed in new ways today business [17:53] information is rubbing shoulders with [17:55] Rihanna maroon 5 and jay-z have a large [17:59] group of sales professionals today that [18:01] ask for almost every bit of information [18:03] we can deliver [18:05] deliverable to an iPod or some other [18:07] handheld device which at first was hard [18:10] for me to understand that people would [18:12] use a portable listening device to [18:14] educate themselves but they do it and [18:16] they almost expect it on a routine basis [18:19] as opposed to an ad-hoc basis but simply [18:22] acquiring the latest technology won't [18:25] maximize opportunities it's more complex [18:28] than that it's a people issue it's too [18:34] logic sent about technology but getting [18:36] it done is fundamentally about the [18:38] people and I think the companies have to [18:40] understand that to get the most from the [18:43] new world and the use of technology they [18:46] have to consider the salespeople and [18:48] that's a problem for many companies [18:50] because I don't think they fully [18:52] consider the fact that they are they're [18:54] dealing with probably the most skeptical [18:56] community that exists I think this is [18:59] because companies just throw the [19:01] technology out of the sales force and [19:03] sometimes not even aligning those tools [19:06] with the systems that are in place all [19:08] the more reason to have a process layer [19:12] that starts to discipline how these [19:15] salespeople use use the technology the [19:18] process layer to me is the missing piece [19:20] people are locked in old processes and [19:22] still behaving that way probably the [19:25] most significant thing that I have found [19:27] is the lack of ability to pick a process [19:31] standardize it explain it to all the [19:35] people who are going to interface with [19:37] your company and your customers because [19:40] both have to come together and do it [19:42] with a repeatable process if you create [19:45] a tactical sales organization that's one [19:47] way to realize results but if you're [19:49] looking to maximize the output of any [19:51] organization the greater level of [19:54] sophistication the more discipline the [19:55] more earnst you put behind the activity [19:58] the greater the results and I think in [20:00] this case it's clear it's crystal clear [20:01] that the greater the orchestration the [20:03] greater the results we talk about [20:06] collaboration and sharing of best [20:08] practices and capture [20:10] through measurable sales process what [20:13] are these really talented salespeople [20:15] doing and how can we raise the B players [20:18] to be a players so that everybody can [20:21] can sell and serve customers and make [20:24] our companies successful the emphasis on [20:35] tools the emphasis of coaching the [20:38] emphasis on process everything here is a [20:42] way of enabling and ordinary mortals to [20:45] succeed where previously it needed a [20:48] rockstar and there aren't enough [20:50] rockstars and so companies are investing [20:55] in ways of gradually developing people [20:58] to help them along [20:59] [Music] [21:10] sales experts argue that the best way to [21:13] grow top level players is to plant the [21:15] seeds in a fertile environment an [21:18] interesting statistic we produce [21:21] something like a hundred and forty [21:23] marketing graduates for every one we [21:27] produce in sales [21:28] you'd think there'll be 140 marketing [21:31] jobs waiting for everyone in sales but [21:34] no if anything it's pretty well the [21:35] other way around to be productive in [21:37] sales today students leaving college [21:39] with a sales major really have a step up [21:43] in terms of productivity so they're [21:45] getting up to speed in a shorter period [21:47] of time it's quite common for our [21:49] graduates to get major accounts within [21:52] three months of being hired by a partner [21:55] company they're getting promoted they're [21:57] expanding their roles they're becoming [22:00] leaders it's understood that schools [22:03] need to have funding from organizations [22:06] from businesses in order to continue to [22:09] grow because the budgets are getting [22:11] tighter and tighter if we're able to [22:14] bring a set of partner companies to a [22:16] university and these partner companies [22:19] are not only hiring our grads but giving [22:22] back to the University to fund some [22:24] major initiatives then it's a real win [22:27] for the university as a result many [22:30] schools have 20 30 40 50 different [22:33] companies sponsoring them and the total [22:36] amount they receive in the sponsorship [22:38] can be anything from a quarter a million [22:40] dollars to a couple million dollars [22:41] today companies are really recognizing [22:43] the value of our program our business [22:46] partners really have an impact on what [22:48] happens in the classroom students are [22:51] exposed to what tools methodologies [22:54] organizations that our business partners [22:56] are using many of them have the [22:58] opportunity to work in an internship [22:59] opportunity and when they start an [23:02] organization they add value [23:05] [Music] [23:08] as the industry seeks to achieve [23:10] professional status there's also a push [23:13] toward a professional standards of [23:15] ethics you absolutely have to create [23:18] selling processes that you know look out [23:22] for the customer we've done culture [23:24] studies studying cultures within sales [23:26] forces and the culture kind of tells you [23:28] how you should behave so for example the [23:31] customer really doesn't need my product [23:33] so the best for me not to sell them this [23:37] particular product and the other hand I [23:39] gotta make my numbers so what's more [23:41] important my numbers our customer [23:43] goodwill culture tells you how unique if [23:47] you've got a culture that it's gonna be [23:49] hard to send Commission from dollar one [23:50] you pretty well know what the sales [23:51] persons gonna do now these are all [23:53] decisions of the company makers and [23:55] we're kind of how we pay and what kind [23:57] of culture we've set up the best [24:00] salespeople are not short-term [24:03] maximizers they're in it for the long [24:06] term the only way you can be in it for [24:08] the long term is if I help you succeed I [24:12] heard it said recently that in that [24:14] interaction you can't tell who the [24:16] salesperson is and who the customers I [24:18] succeed if you succeed like no other way [24:27] [Music] [24:56] you

===FILE=== KTRvRTqGNA4 - Neil Rackham on Sales.txt
https://youtu.be/KTRvRTqGNA4
Neil Rackham on Sales

[0:14] there's something like 18 million sales [0:17] jobs in this [0:18] country and roughly 10 million of those [0:21] are going to disappear over the next 5 [0:24] years has a bit of a downer to start a [0:28] session the good news is the jobs that [0:31] remain are going to be very different [0:34] much more significant much higher [0:37] paid and uh let's hope that [0:43] we're let's hope we're in the right [0:46] group now I'm going to try to keep us [0:49] all um Awake and Alive by making my [0:53] presentation very interactive I'm going [0:55] to put on the screen things called [0:57] station breaks and whenever you see a St [1:00] break I'm going to invite you to turn to [1:03] one or two people next to you in front [1:05] of you behind you and discuss the topic [1:07] that's on the screen and then I'll talk [1:10] more about it myself because I I don't [1:12] know how you learn I can't learn by [1:14] listening anymore maybe I'm just getting [1:16] old or something but for me I learn by [1:19] arguing the thing myself talking about [1:21] it thinking about it and that's what I'm [1:23] going to invite you to do so there will [1:26] be a number of station breaks and in [1:28] fact uh we we should practice one right [1:31] now um here's here's the first one and [1:34] if you if you had looked at this [1:37] question just a few years ago you could [1:41] very easily have said oh this is [1:42] going to be a really long morning [1:46] because could you possibly imagine a [1:49] dumber question than what's the purpose [1:51] of a [1:52] Salesforce but that's not such a dumb [1:54] question anymore I I run a session for [1:58] CEOs of public companies who are [2:00] interested in sales and marketing issues [2:02] a couple of years ago they were asking [2:03] me questions like how do we compensate [2:06] Technical and support people who are [2:08] playing a role in the sale or you know [2:10] how do we how do we manage big Global [2:13] accounts and cut that with our our local [2:16] geographies questions like these are [2:18] about how do you do a little bit better [2:21] at what we're doing already the last one [2:23] I ran the very first question was do I [2:25] need a Salesforce at all that that's a [2:28] more serious question and that's all [2:30] about well what is the purpose of a [2:32] Salesforce so I'm I'm just going to [2:34] invite you to talk to some people around [2:36] you about just that topic what is the [2:39] purpose of a Salesforce and and then [2:41] I'll discuss it with you so let's try [2:43] station [2:58] break okay [3:00] Okay I uh I I I heard a number of [3:04] answers from you um most of them sound [3:08] it pretty reasonable the the the answer [3:11] the purpose of of a a Salesforce is is [3:15] to make sales is not necessarily the [3:17] deepest answer you could have but um hey [3:21] let's let's have a look at typically how [3:23] people answer this [3:25] question um it's to make sure the [3:28] customers got the right information [3:30] uh about your products at the right time [3:32] in order to influence a purchasing [3:34] decision okay let's look at another one [3:37] convinces customers to buy from you by [3:40] showing that you're better in some way [3:42] differentiates you [3:46] okay you shows that you've got something [3:48] worthwhile that meets customer needs MH [3:51] I I think that's reasonable I I like [3:53] this one it's it's a translator it puts [3:56] it puts stuff into the customer's [3:58] language and that sort of makes sense [4:01] last one here the purpose of the [4:03] Salesforce is to communicate to [4:04] customers the value of your [4:08] offerings okay that's uh and that again [4:12] is a reasonable statement I would be [4:14] suggesting to you that all those [4:17] five statements I showed on the screen [4:20] have something in common and they [4:22] probably rather like some of the things [4:23] you were [4:24] saying every one of those five is about [4:27] the idea that the role of Salesforce [4:30] is is to [4:31] communicate value to show the customers [4:35] that we have this mous trap and this m [4:38] trap is [4:39] better I'm also going to be suggesting [4:41] to you that's yesterday's purpose of a [4:44] Salesforce if all that you do is you [4:48] communicate to customers how great your [4:50] products and services are you're [4:53] probably not going to cut it in fact my [4:56] co-author and I and did a lot of [4:59] research into the probable future [5:01] numbers of people in businesses to [5:03] business sales today there's about 19 [5:06] million people employed in the United [5:08] States in businessto business selling we [5:11] think that's going to drop to about 10 [5:13] million within the next 5 years and the [5:16] reason why it's going to drop to 10 [5:17] million is an awful other of people will [5:19] never get away from the idea that [5:22] selling is about communicating to [5:25] customers that you have a great product [5:28] or service selling is actually much more [5:31] than that and will be more than that in [5:32] the future and I want to talk about it [5:34] because what you're talking about here [5:37] is how do we add more than the mous Trap [5:40] already has what is it that we do when [5:43] we sell that adds something that the [5:46] customer values which will tip the sale [5:49] in our favor where if we can do it and a [5:52] competitor can't do it as well as us [5:54] even if they could copy our products and [5:57] services we would be the ones to get the [6:00] business and that's really worth [6:03] thinking about in fact it's it's so [6:06] important that one of the things I'll do [6:09] is when I'm working with an organization [6:11] to you know try and help move sales [6:14] forward and the one of the first things [6:17] I'll do is I'll make sure that in [6:19] everyone's mind is the question before I [6:22] go out on a major [6:24] call is the customer going to write me a [6:27] check for the call I'm just about to [6:28] make [6:31] what could I do differently we just have [6:33] that customer saying [6:35] hey that was [6:38] valuable because that's our job nowadays [6:40] our job is value creation if we don't [6:43] create value if all we are is a talking [6:46] brochure we a't going to get there and [6:48] you can see this very clearly when you [6:50] do studies of customers you know I'm I'm [6:53] I'm one of these Guru guys so I've been [6:55] out on sales calls and I love to talk [6:58] and I'm there and I'm talking about this [6:59] I'm talking about this I'm talking about [7:01] that and afterwards I stop and I think [7:04] hold [7:05] on what problem did I solve for this [7:09] customer how did I create value would [7:12] the customer really have WR a check for [7:14] the call I don't think so I got carried [7:18] away and and you can't do that in [7:21] selling anymore you've always got to be [7:23] asking how am I creating customer value [7:29] and the final piece of advice is the way [7:31] you do it is by understanding your [7:33] customers more deeply than ever before [7:36] that's why questioning skills are [7:38] terribly [7:39] important the successful people in this [7:42] Marketplace have two kinds of skills [7:45] they're great at questioning and getting [7:48] down to what's really happening in [7:50] business terms with the customer the [7:52] second skill they have is the creativity [7:54] of coming up with a [7:55] solution your problem solvers and [8:00] the capacity to customize a solution for [8:03] a customer is enormously important if [8:06] you can get a sticky solution if you [8:08] want to get something that really [8:09] answers the problem and do it at an [8:12] economic cost that's the trick and [8:16] you've got to see your products and [8:17] services as these are the tools that [8:20] enable us to create customer [8:22] value your job as a salesperson in the [8:24] future is I [8:25] am a value creation manager [8:29] I'm creating value for this customer [8:32] using our products and services using [8:35] the whole array of things that the [8:37] organization can provide I'm marshalling [8:40] these things to create customer value [8:43] that's the job of the sales

===FILE=== MLrrp8Ppm0c - Is the Role of the Rep Diminishing.txt
https://youtu.be/MLrrp8Ppm0c
Is the Role of the Rep Diminishing？

[0:00] [Music] [0:10] I think sales reps in part are um [0:14] victims of perhaps a negative stereotype [0:16] of being a sales rep you know rep is a [0:18] good source of gleaning information on [0:21] new treatments in today's highly [0:23] regulated environment we want the rep to [0:26] really provide very specific information [0:28] at the time we Wanted drug reps provide [0:31] education they provide knowledge they're [0:33] probably the most important educator to [0:35] the Pharma company a sales rep is [0:37] critical they're sort of the the legs [0:39] they're the communication vehicle they [0:41] do help us in many ways with samples [0:43] with education with information at the [0:45] end of the day the best SP of a company [0:47] is their primary Salesforce if you have [0:49] three products are identical in efficacy [0:51] I think it's the sales up in the end [0:52] that may make the difference [0:55] [Music]

===FILE=== WlfPaK4BIZE - Neil Rackham - Sales and Marketing Speaker.txt
https://youtu.be/WlfPaK4BIZE
Neil Rackham - Sales and Marketing Speaker

[0:06] there's something like 18 million sales [0:10] jobs in this country [0:12] and roughly 10 million of those are [0:14] going to disappear over the next five [0:16] years [0:18] that's a bit of a downer to start [0:20] a session the good news is [0:23] the jobs that remain [0:24] are going to be very different [0:26] much more significant [0:28] much higher paid [0:31] and [0:32] let's hope that we're [0:37] let's hope we're in the right group [0:47] do [1:05] neil rackham became a hero to [1:06] professional sales people around the [1:08] world with the release of spin selling [1:11] one of the most influential sales books [1:12] of all time more than half of the [1:14] fortune 500 companies now use sales [1:17] strategies based on the spin selling [1:18] model deal's follow-up books include [1:21] major account sales strategy getting [1:23] partnering right and most recently [1:25] rethinking the sales force [1:27] neil rackham is the global authority on [1:29] the evolution of professional selling no [1:32] one alive has done more to change the [1:34] way major companies think about selling [1:36] a top-rated speaker and respected [1:38] thought leader neil rackham's [1:40] hard-hitting fully customized programs [1:42] are designed to provide maximum learning [1:44] and maximum benefit for you and your [1:46] company here are a few excerpts of [1:48] recent presentations [1:53] now i'm going to try to keep us all [1:57] awake and alive by making my [1:59] presentation very interactive [2:01] i'm going to put on the screen things [2:03] called station breaks [2:05] and whenever you see a station break [2:07] i'm going to invite you [2:09] to turn to one or two people next to you [2:11] in front of you behind you and discuss [2:13] the topic that's on the screen [2:15] and then i'll talk more about it myself [2:17] because i [2:20] listening anymore understand i'm just [2:22] getting old or something [2:23] but for me i learned by arguing the [2:26] thing myself talking about it thinking [2:28] about it and that's what i'm going to [2:30] invite you to do so there will be a [2:32] number of station breaks [2:34] and in fact [2:35] we we should practice one right now um [2:38] here's here's the first one and if you [2:40] if you [2:41] had looked at this [2:43] question [2:44] just a few years ago [2:46] you could very easily have said oh [2:48] this is going to be a really long [2:50] morning [2:51] because [2:53] could you possibly imagine a dumber [2:56] question than what's the purpose of a [2:57] sales force [2:59] but that's not such a dumb question [3:01] anymore i i run a session for ceos of [3:05] public companies who are interested in [3:07] sales and marketing issues a couple of [3:09] years ago they were asking me questions [3:10] like how do we compensate technical and [3:13] support people who are playing a role in [3:15] the sale or you know how do we how do we [3:17] manage [3:18] big global accounts and cut that with [3:21] our local geographies [3:23] questions like these are about [3:25] how to do a little bit better of what [3:27] we're doing already [3:29] the last one i ran the very first [3:30] question was do i need a sales force at [3:32] all [3:34] that's a more serious question and [3:36] that's all about what is the purpose of [3:38] a sales force [3:39] so i'm just going to invite you to talk [3:41] to some people around you about just [3:44] that topic what is the purpose of a [3:46] sales force and then i'll discuss it [3:48] with you so let's try station break [4:05] okay [4:07] i uh i i heard a number of answers from [4:10] you [4:11] um [4:12] most of them sounded pretty reasonable [4:15] the the answer the purpose [4:18] of a sales force is is to make sales is [4:22] not necessarily the deepest answer you [4:25] could have but [4:26] hey let's let's have a look at typically [4:29] how people answer this question [4:32] um [4:33] it's to make sure the customers got the [4:34] right information [4:36] uh about your products at the right time [4:38] in order to influence a purchasing [4:40] decision [4:41] okay let's look at another one [4:44] convinces customers to buy from you [4:46] by showing that you're better in some [4:48] way differentiates you okay [4:53] it shows that you've got something [4:55] worthwhile that meets customer needs [4:57] i think that's reasonable i i like this [4:59] one [5:00] it's a translator it puts it puts stuff [5:03] into the customer's language [5:05] and that sort of makes sense [5:07] last one here the purpose of the sales [5:09] force is to communicate to customers the [5:12] value of your offerings [5:15] okay [5:16] that's uh [5:17] and that again is a reasonable statement [5:20] i'm going to be suggesting to you that [5:22] only those five [5:24] statements i showed on the screen have [5:26] something in common and they'd probably [5:28] rather like some of the things you were [5:30] saying [5:32] every one of those five is about the [5:33] idea that the role of the sales force is [5:36] is to communicate [5:38] value [5:40] to show the customers that we have this [5:43] mousetrap and this mousetrap is better [5:46] i'm also going to be suggesting to you [5:48] that's yesterday's purpose for [5:50] salesforce if all that you do [5:54] is you communicate to customers how [5:56] great your products and services are [5:59] you're probably not going to cut it [6:01] in fact my co-author and i [6:04] did a lot of research into [6:06] the probable future numbers of people in [6:09] business to business sales today there's [6:11] about 19 million people employed in the [6:14] united states in business to business [6:16] selling [6:17] we think that's going to drop to about [6:18] 10 million within the next five years [6:21] and the reason why it's going to drop to [6:23] 10 million [6:24] is an awful lot of people will never get [6:26] away from the idea that selling [6:29] is about communicating to customers [6:32] that you have a great product or service [6:36] selling is actually much more than that [6:37] and will be more than that in the future [6:39] and i want to talk about it [6:40] because what you're talking about here [6:43] is how do we [6:45] add more than the mousetrap already has [6:48] what is it that we do when we sell that [6:51] adds something that the customer values [6:54] which will tip the sale in our favor [6:56] where if we can do it [6:58] and a competitor can't do it as well as [7:00] us [7:01] even if they could copy our products and [7:03] services [7:04] we would be the ones who get the [7:06] business [7:07] and that's [7:08] really worth thinking about [7:11] in fact it's so important [7:14] that one of the things i'll do is when [7:16] i'm working with an organization [7:17] to you know try and help move sales [7:20] forward [7:21] and [7:22] the one the first things i'll do is i'll [7:24] make sure that [7:25] in everyone's mind is the question [7:28] before i go out on a major call [7:32] is the customer going to write me a [7:33] check for the call i'm just about to [7:34] make [7:37] what can i do differently [7:39] we should have that customer saying hey [7:42] that was valuable [7:45] because that's our job nowadays our job [7:47] is value creation [7:49] if we don't create value if all we are [7:51] is a talking brochure [7:53] we aren't going to get there and you can [7:55] see this very clearly when you do [7:56] studies of customers [7:58] you know i'm i'm on these guru guys so [8:01] i've been married on sales calls and i [8:03] love to talk and i'm there and i'm [8:05] talking about this and i'm talking about [8:06] this i'm talking about that [8:08] and afterwards i [8:09] stop and i think hold on [8:13] what problem did i solve for this [8:14] customer [8:17] how do i create value [8:18] would the customer really [8:20] check for the call i don't think so [8:22] i get carried away [8:25] and you can't do that in selling anymore [8:28] you've always got to be asking [8:30] how am i [8:32] creating customer value [8:35] and the final piece of advice is the way [8:37] you do it [8:38] is by understanding your customers more [8:40] deeply than ever before [8:42] that's why questioning skills are [8:44] terribly important [8:46] the successful people in this [8:48] marketplace have two kinds of skills [8:51] they're great at questioning and getting [8:54] down to what's really happening in [8:56] business terms with the customer [8:58] the second skill they have is the [8:59] creativity of coming up with a solution [9:02] you're problem solvers [9:04] and [9:06] the [9:07] capacity to customize a solution for a [9:09] customer [9:10] is enormously important it will get a [9:13] sticky solution if you can get something [9:15] that really answers the problem [9:17] and do it as an economic cost [9:20] that's the trick and you've got to see [9:23] your products and services as these are [9:24] the tools that enable us to create [9:27] customer value [9:29] so a job as a salesperson in the future [9:30] is i am [9:33] a value creation manager i'm [9:36] creating value for this customer using [9:39] our products and services [9:41] using the whole array of things that the [9:43] organization can provide [9:45] i'm marshaling these things to create [9:48] customer value that's the job of the [9:50] sales

===FILE=== fQmsc6Carso - Neil Rackham.txt
https://youtu.be/fQmsc6Carso
Neil Rackham

[0:10] the topic I'd like to talk about today [0:13] is bullying purchasing has gone through [0:19] an enormous revolution 20 years ago [0:24] purchasing wasn't important parts of [0:26] most companies it wasn't strategic today [0:31] some of the smartest people in the [0:33] company work in purchasing these are [0:36] people who are using things like [0:38] purchasing segmentation strategies [0:41] special techniques good negotiating to [0:45] take a bigger and bigger part and the [0:48] decision making of the company [0:51] purchasing has gone through a revolution [0:54] selling must now go through the same [0:56] revolution because it's become unequal [1:01] ten years ago purchasing and sales were [1:04] about equally sophisticated purchasing [1:09] has changed [1:10] putting us become more complex more [1:15] sophisticated and we him selling have to [1:19] understand purchasing better we have to [1:22] create more value in the way we sell and [1:26] we have to do things that will get [1:30] respect from the new generation of [1:33] purchasers I go to many purchasing [1:36] conferences I'm very interested in what [1:40] is happening in purchasing and what I [1:43] find is everybody there complains the [1:46] sales people who come in front of me [1:49] they're not well prepared they haven't [1:52] done their homework they don't have a [1:55] deep enough understanding of my business [1:58] and my needs and I don't want to see [2:02] those salespeople anymore I want to see [2:04] sales people who are strategic who are [2:08] business thinkers [2:10] who can put to me a financially good [2:13] proposition and I want someone who can [2:17] be my business [2:18] equal that's the salesperson of the [2:20] future who will be able to handle the [2:23] new purchasing

===FILE=== jkiyEdMhdls - Neil Rackham - The Buying Cycle Today.txt
https://youtu.be/jkiyEdMhdls
Neil Rackham - The Buying Cycle Today

[0:02] [Music] [0:10] there are some huge changes at every [0:13] point of that buying cycle driven by the [0:16] fact that selling itself is changing and [0:18] of course the purchasing revolution has [0:21] changed things too so there have been [0:24] very significant changes enormous [0:26] changes let's let's go through the [0:28] changes step by step suppose we start [0:32] with that apparently dead stage called [0:36] changes over time that no one gives much [0:40] attention to it's waiting for something [0:42] to happen well at one time that was like [0:46] a glacier moving very very slowly [0:50] today those changes are happening faster [0:52] than ever before inside the customer and [0:55] the winners are getting in there before [0:59] and need [1:00] develops what they're doing is they're [1:03] challenging the customer with ideas with [1:06] possibilities more and more looking to [1:09] create value and to keep a presence [1:12] there in the customer that used to be a [1:15] very very quiet part of the selling [1:16] cycle it's no longer that way now [1:19] because it's a very active phase for the [1:22] buyer because buyers are living in an [1:25] age where you can't afford to wait the [1:29] average company has got twice as many [1:31] competitors as it had just 5 years [1:34] ago it's a fast moving world and [1:37] customers are looking all the time and [1:40] salespeople have to be aware that even [1:42] before the need buyers are much more [1:46] interested in change and in anticipating [1:50] things that may be going to [1:52] happen let let's turn to the recognition [1:55] of need stage of the cycle there was a [1:58] time when where it was a fairly easy [2:01] thing to do to just uncover customer [2:05] problems and offer Solutions and that [2:08] was the recognition of needs phas [2:10] because what was happening was we lived [2:13] in an era where there weren't as many [2:16] choices for the [2:17] customer and the problems that the [2:20] customer had were much clearer than they [2:22] are today 20 years ago when I was first [2:25] doing the research that led to the [2:27] buying cycle I I was doing a lot of [2:30] research with Xerox at the time when a [2:32] Xerox salesperson went to a customer and [2:35] asked what are the problems with your [2:37] present [2:38] copier the customer would say the [2:40] quality stinks it's always breaking down [2:43] it jams I I can't keep the thing at a [2:46] consistent level of [2:48] quality all of those things were easy [2:50] problems the need was very near the [2:53] surface it didn't take much to bring it [2:55] out today that same customer says in [2:58] answer the question what are the problem [3:00] your present copier I don't even know [3:01] who makes my present [3:03] copier now there are problems there are [3:07] important things needs but they're of a [3:10] different kind they're deeper they're [3:13] more systemic they're more about value [3:16] than ever they used to be let's turn to [3:19] the evaluation of options stage how is [3:21] that [3:22] changing the kind of change that I see [3:25] there is the customer has already done a [3:30] lot of the [3:31] comparison before ever a salesperson [3:34] comes to talk to them in fact some [3:37] studies are showing that well over half [3:39] the decision is being made by the [3:42] customer before they talk to salespeople [3:44] at all a customer can today access [3:49] something like 20 times as much data [3:52] about you and your competitors than they [3:54] could 5 years [3:55] ago the customers flooded with that data [3:58] they don't need to s person to show how [4:02] we are different from them how our [4:03] widget is better than their [4:05] widget what the customer is trying to do [4:07] is evaluate something more complex to [4:10] evaluate something with a longer time [4:12] Horizon to evaluate for example a [4:15] relationship the kind of relationship [4:17] they want with a vendor to evaluate [4:20] things like the capacity of that person [4:24] to create significant customer value all [4:28] of these things mean that that there's a [4:30] different emphasis there in the customer [4:35] today in the resolution of concerns [4:39] stage a couple of important things have [4:42] happened one is we live in an [4:45] era partly driven by the uh difficult [4:50] Economic Times partly driven because [4:53] we're in uncertainty [4:55] anyway an era where customers are [4:58] becoming quite risk averse [5:00] they they don't want to make a bad [5:05] decision and fewer and fewer people want [5:07] to stick their necks out unless they [5:09] feel really reassured that this decision [5:11] is Right remember the resolution of [5:13] concerns is [5:16] about coming to a comfort with the risks [5:20] and problems that would come from going [5:22] with you the supplier now the buyer [5:26] needs that reassurance and needs it in [5:29] more depth than before and that is one [5:32] of the driving changes the risk [5:35] reduction function of salese during this [5:38] resolution of concerns phase it's deeper [5:42] it's more complex and it's more [5:43] sophisticated than it used to [5:47] be negotiation is something that enters [5:50] into the resolution of concern stage [5:53] what's happening there is purchasing has [5:57] become very sophisticated at NE [5:59] negotiating in the kind of way where [6:01] they're able to claw back very much more [6:05] than ever they did before from their [6:08] vendors and the negotiating stage is an [6:11] almost inevitable one when I was doing [6:14] the [6:15] research maybe 50 to [6:18] 60% of complex long cycle sales had an [6:22] element of negotiation just before the [6:25] decision today it'ss well over 90% [6:31] if you go back 15 [6:32] years and if you could see inside the [6:35] customer's mind what you would see there [6:38] are concerns like the quality of what [6:41] they're buying the reliability of what [6:43] they're buying um the price of course [6:47] has always been a major [6:50] issue but those concerns have [6:53] changed qualities are given [6:56] reliabilities are [6:58] given everyone expects that you can [7:01] perform and your competitors can perform [7:04] you become more of a commodity in that [7:06] sense so what the buyer's looking for [7:10] there is not differences between [7:13] products they're looking very much more [7:15] at differences between how they're being [7:18] sold today how you sell has become much [7:21] more important than what you sell the [7:24] successful salesperson today is someone [7:27] who creates customer value they do that [7:30] by their ideas by their creativity by [7:33] their capacity to show customers things [7:37] that the customer hasn't even realize [7:38] we're there

===FILE=== qtZXf6yVpaw - Neil Rackham author of SPIN sellling on combining sales and marketing.txt
https://youtu.be/qtZXf6yVpaw
Neil Rackham, author of SPIN sellling, on combining sales and marketing

[0:00] Neil Rekham uh creator author of Spin [0:03] Selling. You say that entrepreneurs are [0:05] basically bad at selling. Why? The [0:09] fundamental reason is an entrepreneur [0:12] almost by definition has a deep [0:15] enthusiasm for what they do. After all, [0:18] it's usually the company is their [0:19] creation and the products often are [0:21] their own creation. And one of the [0:24] things we know about selling and we've [0:25] known for nearly 40 years is that the [0:28] best selling isn't at all about your [0:31] products and what you can offer. It's [0:33] very much about the customers and their [0:35] need. And entrepreneurs very often swamp [0:38] the customer. After all, since the [0:40] 1970s, research has shown that in a [0:44] sales call, the more time the customer [0:47] talks, the higher probability that the [0:49] call will succeed. In my experience, [0:52] entrepreneurs can't help themselves. [0:54] When they get in front of a customer, [0:56] they want to tell the customer the [0:58] story. It can be a very compelling [1:00] story. It just doesn't cause the [1:02] customer to buy as as well as if they [1:06] focused on the customer, listen to what [1:08] the customer's needs were, and work from [1:10] there. So, you're basically saying they [1:12] don't listen. I think many of them would [1:15] challenge that. They'd say, "Oh, but I [1:17] do listen." But the reality is they're [1:19] they're listening very [1:21] selectively. They're they're listening [1:23] for how can I get in and start talking [1:25] about what I can offer. When you study [1:28] highly effective salespeople, one of the [1:30] thing you find is that highly effective [1:33] salespeople talk about solutions, talk [1:35] about what they could offer very late in [1:38] the sales process. Less effective people [1:41] can't wait to start talking about what [1:43] they can do. And of course, [1:44] entrepreneurs are impatient people and [1:46] often they'll jump in too quickly and [1:48] start talking about answers. And the [1:51] customer who's listening there doesn't [1:53] link that answer to their needs because [1:56] customers have to start with what they [1:58] need and then move to what fulfills that [2:01] need. They don't like starting with a [2:02] product and trying to work backwards. [2:04] And too many entrepreneurs say, "We have [2:06] this great thing. Do you need it?" And [2:09] the answer they often get is, "It is a [2:11] great thing, but we don't need it." and [2:13] they have that passion and commitment to [2:15] a product or service and that's [2:17] basically what they're trying to push. I [2:19] don't want to in any way suggest that [2:21] passion is a bad thing. Controlled [2:25] passion is what's such a good thing. And [2:28] when when it gets in the way of [2:30] listening to the customer, focusing on [2:32] the customer and the customer's need, [2:34] that's when it hurts. What would be your [2:36] advice then that they should bring in a [2:38] sales team? I think what often happens [2:41] is the the entrepreneur tries to do too [2:44] much of the selling [2:45] themselves. And when you look at uh [2:49] successful entrepreneurs, there comes a [2:52] point fairly early on when it's other [2:55] people who are going out and generating [2:57] customer business. Now having said that, [3:00] the entrepreneur always does have a role [3:02] in sales. [3:04] The more complex the sale, the more the [3:07] senior person in the organization has to [3:10] be there representing the organization [3:12] and what it will offer. But the [3:14] fundamentals of selling are often best [3:17] left to someone else. At the core of [3:18] spin selling is that you should listen [3:21] to the customer and add value wherever [3:23] you can. How is selling changing [3:26] nowadays, particularly at a time of [3:28] recession? Well, let's let's look [3:31] specifically at how first how selling is [3:34] changing and then what the recession has [3:36] added on top of that in terms of [3:39] complexity. One of the ways in which [3:41] selling is is changing [3:44] is the average customer no longer [3:47] exists. [3:48] What's happening is customers either [3:51] want [3:53] cheap, convenient, easy to do business [3:56] with [3:57] answers or they want indepth help. Now [4:02] the the the problem with in-depth help [4:05] is it used to be that customers were [4:07] fairly satisfied if you gave them a [4:09] little bit of help because you you only [4:12] charging them a little bit higher margin [4:14] and and that model seemed to work for a [4:16] long time. But what's happening is [4:19] competitors who are really smart and [4:22] this has been exaggerated by the [4:24] recession say hey the mouse trap is no [4:28] longer enough to bring us [4:30] business. We we yes we have produced a [4:33] better mousetrap but we've got 16 or 18 [4:36] competitors who have also got a mouse [4:38] trap. So what we have to do is create [4:40] more value. And we create more value by [4:43] adding to the mouse trap in terms of [4:46] advice, in terms of [4:48] customization, in terms of helping [4:50] customers analyze their problems. And [4:52] all of those things are costly and they [4:55] take time. And what the winners are [4:57] doing more and more is they're [4:59] overresourcing the opportunities they [5:01] want to win. And that's put the bar up [5:03] for everybody else. So it means that you [5:06] can't half be in the consultative [5:08] selling business because competitors are [5:12] out resourcing you. And one of the [5:14] things which has become a major problem [5:16] today and and the recession has made it [5:19] even worse because the smart companies [5:21] know what they're doing is that the [5:23] skill in selling is more about picking [5:25] which opportunities to overresource than [5:28] almost anything else. That's become a [5:30] major issue today. What's the impact of [5:33] the recession on selling? Are we seeing [5:36] companies downsizing their sales teams? [5:39] Well, it's not a cut back as much as a a [5:42] realignment of their resources. See, one [5:45] one of the things that happens, I will [5:47] guarantee you that as you and I sit here [5:51] talking, all around us are salespeople [5:55] out with customers and the salespeople [5:58] are worried. They're [6:00] anxious. They're saying, "I I I I [6:02] haven't got my pipeline of business at [6:04] the moment." And so what do they do? [6:06] They try and knock on more doors. They [6:09] open up more opportunities. And And [6:11] what's happening is they're half selling [6:13] to twice as many opportunities. The [6:16] smart players say, "Which opportunities [6:18] do we really want? Which ones will we [6:20] win? Let's put twice the resources into [6:23] those." So it's all about focus. [6:26] And Phil Cotler has a nice way of saying [6:28] it. He says um he quotes what he claims [6:32] as a genuine Chinese proverb that if you [6:34] chase two monkeys, both will escape. And [6:37] and I think that's what's happening [6:39] right now in the recession. A lot of [6:41] people are chasing two monkeys. You [6:43] mentioned Phil Cutotler. you wrote an [6:45] article with him in uh the Harvard [6:48] Business Review a few years ago uh that [6:51] looked at the two sides marketing and [6:54] sales and uh saw that the basically they [6:57] were dysfunctional in many instances. [6:59] Yes. In fact, we called the article [7:01] ending the war between sales and [7:03] marketing. When you think about it, [7:05] that's a bizarre [7:07] thing because sales and marketing are [7:10] the two functions that drive [7:13] revenue. you know, you have only two [7:15] revenue generating functions and you'd [7:17] expect they'd work fairly closely [7:19] together. One of the things we found was [7:23] over 70% of CEOs are dissatisfied with [7:27] how their sales and marketing operations [7:29] are working together. And there are [7:31] reasons for that. One reason is they're [7:35] different animals. [7:37] Um generally a marketing person comes [7:39] with an MBA has formally learned [7:42] marketing and marketing tools and [7:44] marketing techniques tends to be more [7:46] intellectual, more [7:48] cerebral. The salesperson is still in [7:52] many areas a fairly seat of the pants [7:55] individual. They often haven't had any [7:57] great education or training. Their skill [8:00] is working with individual customers. [8:03] They're not good at data. They're not [8:05] analytical. And when these two come [8:07] together, they're they're very very [8:09] different animals and they they [8:11] sometimes just don't communicate. [8:13] There's plenty of room for conflict [8:14] between the two sides. Yes. Um [8:17] particularly, of course, what often [8:19] happens is they're competing for the [8:21] same [8:21] budget. So the head of sales will say, [8:23] "Look, for this marketing campaign that [8:26] you want to put on, we could get 10 [8:29] extra salespeople out on the street." [8:32] Now, here's one of the other dilemmas. [8:34] Marketing may be much more strategic, [8:36] but in becoming more strategic, it's [8:38] become less [8:40] measurable. So, I can tell you if I put [8:42] 10 more salespeople on the street, [8:44] almost exactly what I'll expect in terms [8:47] of increased revenue. Marketing has [8:50] great difficulty in explaining what will [8:52] come out of a marketing campaign that [8:54] will be the equivalent of that. But in a [8:56] recession, you're likely to see [8:57] companies cut back on marketing teams [9:00] rather than their sales teams. Yes, [9:02] companies are shedding marketeers. Um, [9:04] and in fact, in the in the US at the [9:07] moment, it's not just junior marketing [9:10] people who are going the tenure of a [9:13] chief marketing officer is something [9:14] like 16 months at the moment on average. [9:17] So there's a lot of turnover of [9:19] marketing people and and also there's a [9:21] great overupp of marketing people. You [9:24] know in the United States there are [9:27] 1,400 graduate level marketing programs [9:30] in US universities and business schools. [9:33] There's 40 sales programs from which you [9:37] might think that there's 1,400 marketing [9:40] jobs for every sales job but not at all [9:43] true. So what's happened is is [9:46] marketing is not standing up too well to [9:49] the hard times and there's a lot of [9:53] marketing people out there just looking [9:54] for opportunity. Many of them this is [9:58] the good news are moving into sales and [10:01] if I were looking at the sales of [10:03] tomorrow and what skills you need I I [10:06] think a marketing background is an [10:08] excellent fundamental qualification for [10:11] getting into the sales area. Are there [10:13] areas of that HBR article that you'd [10:16] like to update or is the diagnostic tool [10:20] still relevant today? Yes, in in that [10:22] article, we were mostly concerned with [10:24] getting a dialogue between sales and [10:26] marketing. So, we we put together a [10:29] questionnaire to allow people to assess [10:31] how integrated sales and marketing was [10:34] in their companies. and that's been very [10:36] widely used in in fact uh the uh there [10:40] were more requests for reprints of that [10:42] article than anything else that HBR had [10:44] published in the three previous years [10:47] and I think it was mostly because it had [10:49] a diagnostic tool in it that that people [10:51] found useful but that got a dialogue [10:53] going it doesn't solve the problem I I I [10:57] think the thing which is interesting [10:59] is as selling is moving into two very [11:02] distinct types of sale the transactional [11:05] sale which tends to be a very lowcost [11:08] standard product. Customers self- [11:11] select. They don't want [11:14] salespeople and the consultative sale [11:16] which is getting deeper and more complex [11:18] and more sophisticated all the time. We [11:22] understand the role of marketing in the [11:24] transactional sale because after all if [11:27] if you are trying to run a business [11:29] where you're getting a lot of lowcost [11:32] product out to a large customer base the [11:35] fundamental skills you need reside much [11:37] more in marketing than in sales. You a [11:40] good brand is enormously helpful. Great [11:43] advertising it really helps. Um, all of [11:47] these things, [11:49] databases, good collateral, well, the [11:52] things that marketing traditionally [11:53] produces are what drive the [11:55] transactional sale. In in fact, when [11:58] when Phil Cutotler and I did a a session [12:00] for chief marketing officers at Kellogg [12:03] um last year, I did something rather [12:05] naughty. I said, "What are the [12:07] competencies we need in the [12:08] transactional sale? Where do they come [12:10] from? Sales or marketing?" and and most [12:12] of the competencies we all agreed came [12:15] from marketing. So I said, "Shouldn't [12:18] marketing own transactional selling?" [12:22] And the majority of people put their [12:23] hands up and said, "Yes." And so I said, [12:25] "Well, perhaps we should give you [12:27] quotas. We should put you on commission [12:29] at the end of the year. If you don't [12:30] perform, we should file you. Can we take [12:32] the vote again?" Not so many hands up [12:35] the second time. But but quite [12:37] seriously, in the transactional sale, [12:40] the tools you need to drive the business [12:43] largely come from marketing. And yet [12:45] very often the transactional sale comes [12:47] under sales. And there's an uneasiness [12:50] there. We need to find a better way of [12:53] bringing the marketing tools and [12:54] marketing competencies to drive the kind [12:57] of business where you have fairly [12:58] standard products. Now that's terms of [13:02] the consultative sale. [13:05] At the time I were writing the article, [13:07] we were banging our heads together [13:09] saying well what's the role of marketing [13:11] in the consultative sale and um uh pupil [13:16] of Phil's Anil Menon himself an [13:18] ex-professor of marketing was now SVP of [13:22] marketing globally for [13:24] IBM and uh he raised a very interesting [13:28] question he said the nature of the [13:30] consultative sale is you're creating the [13:33] solution as you sell. So, how do you [13:37] market a product that's being created as [13:40] you sell it? That's the dilemma for [13:42] marketing in the consultative sale. [13:44] That's also a dilemma for entrepreneurs [13:46] though, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's a [13:48] major business dilemma because we we're [13:52] moving away from the era of stock [13:53] solutions except in that commodity sense [13:56] of a high volume transactional business. [14:00] If we're in the consultative sale where [14:02] there's an awful lot of [14:04] customization, we have to ask, well, [14:06] what does marketing mean there? I I [14:09] think what it does mean is marketing has [14:12] to provide tools to enable salespeople [14:15] to create more customer value. And we've [14:18] been experimenting with some of those [14:19] tools, watching how successful companies [14:23] work with things of that sort. I I quote [14:25] GE and IBM both as very successful [14:28] companies that is doing some quite [14:30] interesting experimental work in terms [14:32] of what's marketing roles in these large [14:35] complex consultative sales. But there is [14:38] one [14:39] role which I I I think is worth thinking [14:41] about for this is the dilemma for an [14:44] entrepreneur or for anyone who's trying [14:46] to run um a successful business. [14:50] I talked about the secret of success [14:52] today in these large consultative sales [14:55] is to choose which ones to overresource. [15:00] In in IBM um global services for [15:02] example, it costs [15:04] $480,000 [15:05] US to make a a bid on a piece of [15:08] business whether they win it or whether [15:10] they lose it. The issue is who chooses [15:12] whether to pursue that piece of [15:14] business. We can no longer let the [15:16] salesperson make the choice. The [15:19] decisions too big and too [15:20] consequential. So this has become a new [15:24] role for marketing. In companies like [15:26] GE, they've worked on integrating sales [15:29] and marketing in a sort of six sigma [15:32] process of selecting which opportunities [15:34] they're going to go after. We'll see [15:36] more and more of that happening because [15:39] the real skill today in selling lies [15:42] very much in picking the winners, [15:45] deciding which opportunities we're going [15:47] to go for, overinvesting in them, [15:50] focusing on them. Neil Rekham, thanks [15:52] for joining us. Thank you.

===FILE=== rgp6f04Bw3E - The Architect of SPIN - an interview with Neil Rackham.txt
https://youtu.be/rgp6f04Bw3E
The Architect of SPIN - an interview with Neil Rackham

[0:05] My name is Neil Brackham. I uh was a [0:07] student here at Sheffield. Today I'm a [0:10] visiting professor and uh all through my [0:13] life I've been a researcher, a writer. [0:17] I've run companies. I've tried to do a [0:19] little bit of everything. My time at [0:21] Sheffield made me incredibly curious [0:24] about stuff and always wanting to find [0:27] something new and and learn something [0:29] new. That's what a good education does. [0:32] And I had a good education while I was [0:33] here. It it really shaped me because [0:37] what it meant was I was always moving [0:39] on, always wanting to learn something [0:41] new. Sheffield gave me a method of [0:44] thinking about problems. That's what a [0:47] university needs to do to help people go [0:50] out into the world and have a way of [0:52] thinking which lets them cope with the [0:55] life that they're going to [0:57] lead. The research I'm doing now I'm [0:59] back in Sheffield is looking at student [1:02] teams. Teams are everywhere and [1:05] employers want students who know how to [1:09] work in teams and until recently [1:11] universities haven't taught this at all. [1:14] Sheffield is almost unique in Sheffield [1:17] is trying to do something about this to [1:19] help our students learn how to work [1:22] effectively in teams and I'm part of [1:25] effort. I came from an era where chevel [1:29] gave me a lot and society gave me a lot [1:32] by by letting me come here. I didn't [1:35] have to pay to be a student. I was paid. [1:40] And isn't that a privilege? and you feel [1:42] that you ought to give something back. [1:44] So, I I've tried to give something back [1:46] in different ways. You're contributing [1:49] to uh funding things here at Sheffield, [1:52] but even more being part of it. Because [1:54] here's the [1:55] secret. When you give back, you actually [1:59] get a lot more than you give. What I get [2:02] back is I work with bright, sharp, young [2:05] people. And there's nothing keeps you [2:07] young more than being able to work with [2:09] with people who are early in their [2:12] careers with fresh ideas, different ways [2:14] of thinking, who won't accept the old [2:16] way. It is fantastic.

===FILE=== tC6L1McOcKI - Neil Rackham - Training Design Criteria 1981.txt
https://youtu.be/tC6L1McOcKI
Neil Rackham - Training Design Criteria 1981

[0:39] and what i want to do initially is share [0:41] with you the sort of criteria we [0:43] developed then [0:45] do some justification i hope um have to [0:48] retreat on at least one thing if you [0:50] have a tough enough challenge at least [0:52] one of these areas i think is [0:54] pretty shaky but i'm not going to tell [0:55] you any more in case you catch me out so [0:58] i leave it to you to do that [1:01] so let's ask ourselves as a starter for [1:03] today [1:05] what are the criteria [1:07] that you could hold up to a design to [1:09] tell you whether that design is going to [1:12] succeed [1:13] in bringing about a change in [1:15] performance [1:18] well when we [1:20] began our work [1:23] the first criterion [1:26] when looking at a whole set of design [1:28] criteria [1:31] was to do with the underlying [1:34] model [1:36] on which [1:37] this was based [1:39] we asked ourselves [1:41] what's the evidence [1:43] that there's a valid success model [1:51] i think [1:53] the sort of discussion [1:55] you will have had last week with gary [1:56] rumler [1:58] would be very much centered around [2:01] the idea [2:02] that there is some model to a [2:04] performance if your training doesn't [2:06] change performance what's it doing [2:09] in specifying a change or specifying [2:12] that there is a desired outcome of some [2:15] kind [2:16] but where do we get our evidence [2:19] that a particular behavior or skill or [2:22] outcome is the thing you should be [2:24] training towards [2:28] frequently [2:30] that evidence is lacking [2:34] now [2:35] how how serious is that [2:37] well [2:39] if your training is not performance [2:41] related [2:43] if you put on training as a kind of act [2:45] of corporate good will [2:47] and you measure your success through [2:50] some kind of smiles test people go away [2:52] liking it that's probably not a very [2:54] important criterion [2:57] on the other hand [2:59] if the criterion by which you are being [3:01] judged is performance change [3:04] then if you're teaching the wrong thing [3:07] the better you teach it [3:08] the worse the mess you're in [3:11] so [3:12] one of the things which is becoming very [3:14] evident [3:15] is that the last four or five years have [3:17] begun to evolve much much more powerful [3:20] methods of skills teaching [3:22] and as these methods have evolved [3:26] a really fundamental questions come up [3:29] how do we know that the things we're [3:31] teaching are the right things to teach [3:34] and where does that evidence come from [3:37] you've seen one [3:40] approach [3:41] which is very helpful in building a [3:43] model [3:45] in terms of [3:46] performance analysis [3:49] and [3:50] some of the things that gary was talking [3:51] about [3:53] for me though [3:55] i know when i looked through the masses [3:57] of programs that we had around the wall [4:01] it was really very difficult [4:03] to know [4:05] when you look at the program whether the [4:06] thing it was suggesting people should do [4:09] as a performance [4:11] was valid or not [4:13] i'll um [4:14] later come on to talk to you about [4:16] particular studies we've done on what [4:19] makes a valid success model [4:22] anyway let's uh move [4:25] from our valid success models and look [4:26] at another design criterion [4:34] for us [4:35] when we analyze a lot of programs [4:38] we found [4:39] that most of the programs we liked had [4:42] an emphasis [4:44] on the basic [4:47] behaviors [4:49] or skills [4:52] and this word basic [4:54] is very important [5:00] i'll be [5:01] saying [5:03] at least 46 times or maybe 47 times [5:06] during the morning [5:08] that [5:09] the biggest single fault in most [5:12] training programs is they try to do too [5:15] much [5:16] they desperately overload the learner [5:19] almost every program would be twice as [5:21] effective if it contained half as much [5:24] the characteristic of almost any good [5:27] design [5:28] is that that design is fundamentally [5:31] very simple [5:32] clean cut [5:34] it doesn't try to do too much [5:36] one aspect of that [5:38] is [5:39] that it has a very good understanding in [5:41] the design of what constitutes a basic [5:44] behavior or skill [5:47] now for me [5:48] a very important differentiation [5:51] is [5:52] to be very clear [5:55] that there are what we might call first [5:57] order skills [6:00] and [6:00] then second order skills or even [6:03] possibly third order [6:06] and let me make this distinction as [6:08] clearly as i can [6:10] a first order skill [6:13] is the capacity to produce [6:17] a basic [6:19] behavior [6:22] a second order skill [6:25] is a capacity to produce something which [6:27] depends on being able to produce the [6:30] basic behavior [6:32] so for example [6:35] suppose we say [6:37] we're producing a program [6:39] on [6:43] interviewing [6:45] and we all know that basic behaviors in [6:48] interviewing include should we say [6:49] fact-finding questions [6:52] so the asking of fact-finding questions [6:54] we might see as a first-order skill [6:58] on the other hand the asking of [6:59] fact-finding questions smoothly and with [7:03] continuity in a way which relaxes and [7:06] leads the person you're interviewing [7:08] isn't a first order skill [7:12] until you actually have your student [7:14] able to ask some questions [7:17] the chances of them asking those [7:18] questions smoothly and well linked to [7:20] other questions and with a sense of [7:22] timing [7:24] is a much more difficult thing for [7:25] people to achieve [7:27] anyway let's uh perhaps come back later [7:30] and argue a little more about the basics [7:33] the key point i'm making [7:35] is that [7:37] for most people [7:40] when we design a program we're not [7:42] thinking hard enough about is that skill [7:47] a fundamental [7:49] building block skill [7:51] or is it going to need a building block [7:53] skill in place that we cannot possibly [7:54] put in place in the time we have [7:56] available [7:58] third [7:59] criterion [8:02] which comes actually the point you're [8:04] making john [8:06] is you should ask yourself [8:07] if you're building a program [8:09] have you built [8:12] a low threat learning environment [8:23] now [8:24] ironically [8:27] we're very aware if we have new and very [8:30] inexperienced people that when we're [8:32] designing a program we don't want to [8:33] scare them [8:35] but [8:38] i think one of the issues john [8:40] is touching on [8:43] is that the people who are under most [8:44] threat are experienced people not [8:46] inexperienced people in a skills program [8:49] because they feel there is an [8:50] expectation on them to perform [8:54] that's particularly so an organization [8:56] like motorola which has a lot of long [8:58] service people have a tremendous amount [9:00] of experience [9:02] you suddenly expose them to something in [9:03] a classroom [9:05] and [9:06] how do we handle it often we make a [9:08] major design error [9:11] and i've seen it happen over and over [9:13] again [9:14] it really is worth bringing up and [9:16] discussing that's this [9:19] you have a program for inexperienced [9:21] people and so you're pretty careful to [9:23] structure it to build it block by block [9:25] to make it very careful and relaxed [9:28] then you know that you have to put on [9:30] something for experienced people [9:32] so what do you do you think well we [9:34] better make it advanced because they'll [9:36] like it better [9:37] and we'd better add some tougher stuff [9:39] and better condense the time down [9:42] what you're actually doing is you're [9:43] greatly increasing [9:45] the threat level [9:47] now the so-called advanced programs that [9:49] tend to be run for people who've got a [9:51] lot of field experience [9:52] in in any area [9:55] don't [9:56] generally have a lot of success [9:59] one of the things which we noticed when [10:00] we went through a lot of programs and [10:02] the exercise which led to these design [10:04] criteria [10:06] was the very few programs for [10:08] experienced people we liked [10:11] really were very very careful indeed [10:13] they did go back to basics they didn't [10:15] try to do too much [10:18] they were very very careful [10:20] to recognize this experienced person [10:23] trapped in a training situation [10:26] is under far far more load and threat [10:29] than ever [10:30] a new hire or inexperienced person [10:35] and if you are suddenly put on a program [10:37] where you're told you must put on a [10:39] training session [10:40] and this is a training [10:43] for non-trainers how to run a session [10:47] and [10:48] everyone's very aware that you are a [10:50] professional training person [10:53] it's a far far more threatening thing [10:55] than if you're asked to do something [10:57] entirely out of your field [10:59] when you can afford to make food [11:00] yourself [11:02] so although it's motherhood to say [11:06] we should be very careful we design a [11:09] program that doesn't doesn't threaten [11:11] people it doesn't pressure people [11:13] when they're new [11:14] we must be even more careful when we [11:16] have experienced people but [11:18] perhaps at this stage [11:21] all i want to say before we go into the [11:23] criteria in in more depth and discuss it [11:26] around particular training programs [11:28] is that you must be [11:31] very careful [11:33] when you [11:34] put something into the program thinking [11:37] that because here's an experienced [11:39] person [11:41] they need tough material [11:44] and if you look at the [11:46] critiques [11:48] of experienced people programs [11:51] you'll you'll so often find it's the [11:52] very simplest program [11:54] which gets the very best critique [11:57] now there [11:59] he raises some design issues about [12:00] whether you can use the same design for [12:02] experienced and inexperienced people we [12:04] we might want to come on to that [12:06] but uh let let me talk about another [12:09] criterion [12:14] it seems very important in a good skills [12:17] program [12:18] that there's [12:20] an incremental build of the skills [12:24] now this is very very much [12:29] related to the third criterion [12:32] but if you look at programs that you've [12:34] been through [12:36] programs that you feel of respect for [12:40] i think you'll agree [12:43] that they have a feeling of of progress [12:46] of movement [12:48] of development of shape [12:51] i'll talk much more about that [12:53] later [12:55] but at this stage just let me say that [12:57] it is a far better learning strategy and [13:00] i don't think [13:01] anyone would be startled at this [13:05] to take a skill and build it block by [13:07] block [13:09] if you can [13:10] with practice opportunity for each [13:12] component rather than try for the whole [13:15] skill [13:16] there are certain exceptions to that [13:19] there are certain skills which can only [13:21] be mastered as as a whole skill [13:25] again if anyone wants to we can look at [13:28] some of those in in more depth but one [13:31] of the things that [13:33] we found in programs that see that [13:36] we felt as designers worked [13:38] exceptionally well [13:40] was each [13:42] piece was a manageable chunk [13:46] when that piece was in place another [13:48] piece was added [13:49] if you look at almost every [13:51] really fine program [13:54] it's based on [13:56] putting [13:58] logically piece after piece so there's a [14:00] shape and a movement through the program [14:02] design [14:05] it's generally not effective [14:06] to try to [14:08] teach your whole skill okay practice the [14:10] whole skill again okay practice the [14:12] whole skill again [14:14] actually there's a very bad reason for [14:16] this and one that i rather resent but i [14:19] it's a fact of life so let me share it [14:22] with you [14:24] if we talk about [14:26] people's learning [14:29] across [14:32] practice opportunity [14:34] so we have practice opportunity in that [14:35] dimension [14:37] and we have [14:39] l for learning in this dimension [14:43] let's just compare [14:45] what people actually learn [14:47] from repeated practice of a skill [14:50] and what they think they learn [14:52] if you look at perceived learning [14:54] perceived learning tends to look like [14:56] this [15:02] that is [15:03] we have [15:04] one practice opportunity two three four [15:07] five and so on [15:09] the first time [15:11] people try and exercise [15:14] for example it might be [15:17] carrying out an interview [15:20] the first time they think they learned [15:21] an awful lot from doing it [15:24] ask them to do the same thing a second [15:25] time and their perceived learning is [15:27] very low a third and a fourth fifth and [15:30] they get bored as hell if you can force [15:32] them through that they begin to show an [15:34] improvement again [15:36] in terms of their perceived learning [15:38] they say hey i really am learning some [15:40] new things [15:41] but this [15:42] dip here this trough is a very dangerous [15:45] one [15:46] known as a variety of vulgar names which [15:49] we may come on to later [15:51] but if you try to measure their actual [15:53] learning [15:54] actual learning seems to be more like [15:56] this [16:03] in other words [16:05] people learn a lot less from doing [16:08] something once than they do from doing [16:10] it twice or three times or four times [16:13] so learning [16:15] if we take by actual learning meaning [16:17] what an observer would see in terms of [16:20] skills performance more and more of the [16:22] skills are displayed even though people [16:24] don't feel they're learning anything new [16:27] now [16:28] what does this mean in terms of [16:29] incremental build of skills it means [16:31] among other things this [16:33] even if it was a good learning strategy [16:36] to expose the whole skill to a person in [16:39] one piece [16:41] and allow them to practice it five times [16:44] their perceived learning [16:47] would drop off very rapidly i think [16:49] you've all seen [16:51] how difficult it is to get people to [16:52] repeat exercises [16:55] even though the learning from doing it [16:57] is often much much higher than the first [16:59] time through [17:02] because people look at the novelty of an [17:04] experience [17:06] and equate novelty with learning very [17:08] often [17:11] now [17:12] what that does mean in terms of [17:14] incremental build of skills is one of [17:16] the ways around that difficulty [17:19] is to take skills piece by piece so each [17:21] time people practice a skill [17:24] there is something new about the [17:26] practice situation [17:28] so perceived learning is higher [17:30] especially if you can work a building [17:33] block approach so each time through [17:36] what people are doing [17:37] is adding a piece of skill [17:41] anyway let's uh let's have a look at [17:43] another criterion [17:48] next criterion is it seems [17:50] characteristic of good training [17:52] in terms of design [17:53] it's got a [17:58] a learner-centered approach [18:04] and you know when i look at those words [18:07] i find them almost impossible to define [18:09] to you adequately [18:12] but [18:13] it means [18:15] things like this [18:17] that [18:20] the whole training design [18:22] starts with the person who's learning [18:24] not with the person who's [18:26] teaching [18:28] you get the feeling [18:30] that [18:32] as you read through the design as you [18:35] actually watch the sessions unfold [18:39] that the learner [18:42] is the person [18:44] who firstly [18:46] usually has some measure of control and [18:49] choice [18:50] secondly [18:52] has needs that have responded to [18:55] the program is built around the needs of [18:58] those [19:00] learners as they emerge [19:04] then let's let's take some examples of [19:06] things which would be [19:08] learner-centered approaches as opposed [19:11] to [19:12] teacher-centered approaches [19:15] a lot too many programs [19:19] are written [19:20] from the point of view of who is going [19:23] to instruct them [19:24] i've done it myself you know [19:27] someone says to me develop a program [19:29] and what am i doing i'm writing [19:31] instructor notes [19:33] i'm writing it very much here is the [19:36] storyline of what the instructor does [19:39] i think how can i communicate this to an [19:41] instructor in order to teach it [19:44] i know something which has very much [19:46] changed the way i design [19:49] is in the last few years since this [19:51] particular experience [19:53] i've started off a design [19:55] by saying we'll figure out later [19:58] how the instructor is going to handle it [20:00] let's start from the point of view of [20:02] the learner the learner comes in and [20:04] sits down and what does that person need [20:08] what should be happening [20:09] what sort of experience is going to [20:12] occur now [20:14] when the learner has been through this [20:15] session what are going to be the sort of [20:17] doubts they're likely to have [20:20] what will be the high spots that we [20:22] anticipate will be there how can we [20:23] capitalize on those and we'll build that [20:25] in [20:26] and i like to just write myself a sort [20:28] of scenario [20:30] of what it's going to feel like for a [20:32] learner going through the program i have [20:34] designed [20:35] and that's really helped me [20:37] because [20:38] if you think about the design process [20:40] the materials development process [20:43] we are very commonly developing programs [20:46] for instructors to instruct [20:49] you know [20:50] because we know that the thing we have [20:52] to churn out three weeks from tuesday is [20:55] some sort of instructor manual [20:59] that's the demand on us and it's what [21:01] we're charged to do [21:04] not a lot of programs succeed in [21:06] transcending that [21:08] but the ones that do tend to be very [21:10] effective programs [21:12] and i i really like to start from that [21:15] point of view [21:17] and it does all to your perspective i'm [21:20] i'm shocked to myself sometimes when i [21:22] look at programs that i've designed [21:25] and i i go back and i think oh [21:28] that session which looked so good [21:31] was because i i really figured out [21:33] something which was [21:35] going to clearly specify what the [21:38] instructor should do [21:41] then i think [21:42] but what is it doing [21:44] for the learner anything [21:47] and and how is that person feeling and [21:49] perceiving [21:50] what they got from it how are they going [21:52] to link it and integrate it into other [21:55] things [21:57] and think of good designs you've seen [22:01] and good instructional processes you've [22:03] seen [22:06] there's always [22:10] the implicit assumption the learner [22:13] comes first [22:16] after all if you look at a lot of the [22:19] work on [22:21] instructional style [22:24] what's that really doing except [22:27] relating very much to the learner and to [22:30] the learner process [22:32] now [22:33] i'd be very happy with this or any other [22:35] criterion to come back and [22:39] discuss much more the sorts of designs [22:40] that do it and don't but maybe maybe i [22:44] want to move on [22:45] and see if i can put up a [22:48] sixth [22:53] it seems true [22:55] almost any good design [22:58] but in the design [23:00] there are freak frequent and [23:03] pretty objective [23:05] progress [23:06] checks as we brits call them [23:12] built in [23:14] to the program itself [23:16] now [23:20] what [23:21] do i mean [23:23] here [23:27] i think we all face at some point issues [23:30] about measurement in the program you [23:32] know [23:33] how do you measure its effect how do you [23:35] measure the change it brings [23:38] it's worth asking [23:41] when we're putting that sort of question [23:43] who are we talking about as the [23:45] beneficiary of the measures [23:48] so often we want to measure [23:52] for the purposes of the instructor or [23:54] the designer on a decision maker in the [23:56] organization [23:57] and we forget that the more complex the [23:59] program the more the person who really [24:02] needs the measurement is the learner [24:06] again [24:07] think of programs where you have really [24:10] felt they've had a big impact on you and [24:12] have been very helpful [24:15] there's been the kinds of checkpoints [24:18] formal and informal which have allowed [24:20] you to feel your baseline skills are [24:22] moving and something's happening to you [24:25] you're going forward [24:28] that's so characteristic of a good [24:30] design let's look at some of the ways in [24:32] which that can be incorporated [24:35] firstly [24:37] if you consider the performance of a [24:39] skill [24:41] the difference between an outstanding [24:44] instructor [24:45] and a pretty average instructor is an [24:46] outstanding instructor can give a [24:48] feeling and skill performance of [24:50] movement forward through the practice [24:52] situations [24:54] and think how demoralizing it is if [24:57] you're on a program where you're [24:58] practicing something and you really [25:00] don't know whether you're improving or [25:01] not [25:03] it's an issue of design [25:05] to ensure that the evidence for whether [25:07] or not that improvement is there [25:09] is built into the design [25:11] now i do a little trick with people that [25:14] unfortunately i can't do with you [25:16] because um [25:17] this is lined paper with one inch [25:20] squares [25:21] and that's this [25:22] when i'm talking about skill learning [25:24] i'll very often say to people [25:27] let's see if we can look at the basis of [25:30] skill learning [25:33] what does it need in order to get skill [25:35] learning well [25:38] perhaps if we're setting up an equation [25:41] we know [25:42] that you've got to have [25:44] practice opportunity [25:47] because if you don't have practice [25:48] opportunity [25:50] you don't learn and the great discovery [25:51] of the 1950s was that you didn't learn [25:53] to swim by reading a book and you then [25:56] have the introduction of role plays and [25:59] simulations and exercises and a big move [26:03] towards getting people to perform rather [26:06] than just to listen [26:08] so practice opportunity seems to be [26:11] tremendously important to skill learning [26:13] now [26:14] i um [26:16] i i [26:17] then [26:18] play this sordid trick with people i say [26:20] let's just um [26:22] test this out and teach someone a skill [26:24] i give someone a felt pen i say draw me [26:26] a line ten and a half inches long on the [26:28] flip chart which actually can be done [26:30] very easily here because i can see the [26:31] squares people might draw a line like [26:34] that you say okay now i want to teach [26:37] you the skill of drawing ten and a half [26:38] inch lines [26:40] so [26:42] now draw another even nearer to ten and [26:44] a half inches [26:45] practice [26:46] this one says but how long is that and i [26:48] say oh [26:49] practice is what this session is about [26:50] draw another line so people go [26:56] they keep practicing and they get pretty [26:58] random and then when they draw a [26:59] particularly disastrous one that's [27:02] 18 inches [27:03] you stop when you measure them [27:05] you say okay practice [27:07] does not seem to improve a skill [27:10] and [27:12] it's obvious what this demonstration is [27:14] it's talking about a missing component [27:15] which is [27:17] feedback yeah [27:18] now that's a very very simple very [27:21] fundamental [27:24] issue and yet it's one where we don't [27:26] put sufficient attention i feel [27:29] into the design of feedback into what [27:32] our rulers and measures are [27:34] we often design a program saying [27:37] please draw a ten and a half inch line [27:40] okay everyone done it fine fine well now [27:44] we're gonna have another exercise and [27:45] this time we'd like you to draw a twelve [27:46] inch line of people saying but how long [27:47] is this one [27:50] i think we've all been on that kind of [27:51] program yes well you haven't really felt [27:54] the ruler is there [27:58] and of course [28:00] i think it's true [28:03] that there is no skill that can be [28:05] learnt [28:06] without feedback i can't think of one [28:11] i'm very willing later [28:13] to come back [28:14] to the whole business of how you build [28:17] those progress checks into a program [28:19] what they might look like in different [28:20] types of programs [28:22] at this stage just let me say that it [28:24] seems to me characteristic of every good [28:26] program that i have ever seen [28:29] that there is that feeling of progress [28:32] centered around the learner [28:34] hey i've even [28:36] not only seen it but actually been a [28:39] conspirator in running the kind of [28:41] program where elaborate measures are [28:43] taken and then taken away from the [28:45] students and behind closed doors looked [28:47] at by the instructors [28:50] we very often don't ask ourselves the [28:52] question [28:52] who is the measurement beneficiary and [28:54] who should it be [28:58] so let's have a look at another [29:00] criterion [29:04] a seventh criterion [29:07] is a line to this one [29:14] that's the chance to get [29:15] maximum practice opportunity [29:21] in [29:22] any program [29:24] see very often [29:28] we carry out calculations about practice [29:30] opportunity for people [29:31] which [29:33] are fundamentally misleading [29:35] i uh [29:36] saw a couple of weeks ago an [29:38] advertisement for a a sales training [29:40] program [29:42] which said this was a [29:44] lendiferous program [29:46] where fifty percent of the program time [29:48] was spent in opportunity for practice [29:51] and therefore people would learn [29:52] in-depth skills [29:54] in the eight hours of program [29:57] were available [29:59] now [30:00] this was a program designed for 12 [30:03] people and one instructor [30:05] it was an eight-hour program [30:07] fifty percent of time devoted to [30:10] practice sounds pretty good [30:13] so let's say that's four hours [30:15] however that four hours is divided [30:17] between twelve people [30:19] because it's no good everyone going away [30:21] and practicing by themselves that's like [30:23] drawing ten and a half inch lines [30:25] the key thing is the instructor or an [30:27] experienced person there to give the [30:29] feedback to give the critique [30:32] the way they did that was in four hours [30:34] twelve people all stood up and did [30:35] something [30:37] divide [30:38] that into [30:40] twelves into four sounds to me like 20 [30:43] minutes a person [30:45] so when you start looking at it the [30:47] amount of practice opportunity [30:49] and that is practice plus feedback [30:51] was not really great in that program [30:54] and yet [30:56] it sounds good at fifty percent [30:59] one of the major design challenges in [31:02] the skills program is how do you [31:04] increase the amount of practice [31:06] but [31:08] keep that practice consistent with that [31:10] sixth criterion of feedback [31:13] because increasing practice opportunity [31:15] alone doesn't do anything you say to [31:16] people go away into a room and practice [31:19] then [31:20] the chances are that after they've drawn [31:22] two or three ten and a half inch lines [31:23] or whatever the task is that they'll [31:26] become sufficiently demoralized to go [31:27] and get coffee and talk and you know to [31:30] generally avoid the exercise [31:35] the key skill in design is how do you [31:38] increase practice opportunity plus [31:41] feedback on that practice [31:44] now there are some very exciting and [31:45] innovative ways of doing it [31:48] here's where the tape recorder is a [31:49] wonderful instrument [31:51] if you can build good enough [31:53] measures that students themselves can [31:55] use [31:57] you can in a group of 12 people have six [32:00] interactions going on at the same time [32:03] six skill practices [32:05] there are ways in which you can [32:08] cross match these designs which are [32:10] quite sophisticated which do ensure that [32:12] people getting some adequate feedback on [32:14] their skills [32:17] there's a lot of new [32:18] thinking and new design technology [32:20] coming into this area because it has [32:22] become very very apparent [32:25] that a limiting factor on a program is [32:27] if people don't have the opportunity to [32:28] practice they won't learn [32:31] and that practice is too dependent on [32:34] the instructor [32:37] and if you only have one instructor and [32:38] you have eight people or twelve people [32:41] then you really do have an issue [32:43] because even if a hundred percent of the [32:45] program is practice time you have a [32:47] maximum of one-eighth of the program or [32:49] one twelfth of the program available to [32:50] people [32:53] that's [32:54] a major issue for me i'm very happy to [32:56] talk later about some of the ways we've [32:59] worked to overcome it [33:00] let me though [33:02] hasten us through another couple of [33:03] design criteria [33:09] another one [33:10] is is there a specific [33:15] performance model [33:20] let me underline that word specific [33:25] in other words is it [33:27] explicitly shown to people [33:30] what an effective performance looks like [33:34] now [33:36] i think i hope that this will be an area [33:39] where we can have a lot of interesting [33:41] argument during the day [33:45] there are some people who on the basis [33:47] of very meager evidence say [33:49] under no circumstances should you ever [33:51] show anybody a model of a bad [33:53] performance in a program [33:55] others say no that's not so [33:58] one thing that everyone does agree [33:59] though is that you don't you don't learn [34:01] a skill by watching someone fail to do [34:03] it [34:06] what sort of models can you show people [34:08] to help them see what it is you're [34:10] talking about when you're talking about [34:12] an effective performance [34:14] now we might ask ourselves quite a lot [34:16] about behavior modelling [34:18] there are some very very big [34:20] difficulties just beginning to emerge in [34:22] behavior modeling methodology [34:25] things that most of the behavior [34:26] modeling experts haven't really thought [34:28] through and are getting themselves in [34:30] tremendous difficulty after all those of [34:33] you who know any behavior modelling [34:35] programs like say the ddi programs which [34:37] are i think the best commercially [34:39] available programs use behavior modeling [34:43] i ask yourself what is a behavior model [34:46] it's actually a sequence model rather [34:48] than a behavior model it says here's a [34:50] sequence of steps to go through in an [34:52] interaction [34:54] now a consequence of that immediately is [34:57] that that's a very difficult model to [34:58] use [35:00] if the performer does not have power [35:04] over the sequence of the interaction [35:07] there has never been a good behavior [35:08] model of negotiation because the [35:10] sequence is negotiable [35:14] there's not really a good behavior model [35:16] of selling [35:17] because the customer has the power [35:20] and you can't say well [35:23] here is the way this sales call is going [35:25] to go first you will on the other hand [35:27] there's very good behavior models of [35:30] manager behavior supervisory behavior [35:34] counselling behavior behavior [35:37] where somebody is in control and can [35:40] therefore control the sequence [35:44] i hope we'll take up some of these [35:46] things because for me there's major [35:47] design issues if you're trying to [35:49] produce a model [35:50] where the sequence isn't controlled i [35:52] think there are ways to do it [35:54] i'm very excited at some of the things [35:56] just beginning to emerge in this [35:57] technology [35:58] it's certainly not the traditional [35:59] behavior modeling approach [36:02] another aspect though [36:04] is that word specific that i've [36:05] underlined [36:06] we have a terrible fallacy [36:10] and that is we tend to believe that [36:13] people learn through principles [36:16] and yet all the evidence is that people [36:18] don't learn through principles [36:21] hey if we learn through principles why [36:22] do we need all the skills practice [36:27] if we learn through principles you'll [36:28] give most things on the back of a [36:29] postcard and say now go away and do it [36:33] what happens to us in our own experience [36:35] is this we have a lot of specific [36:38] experiences [36:40] and then one day we see the link between [36:41] them [36:42] and it's a big aha [36:44] here's the principle [36:46] and because of that the principle to us [36:48] becomes much more important than [36:49] specifics and we try to communicate it [36:51] to others through the principle [36:54] that's not the way we generally learnt [36:58] one of the sad things [37:00] is programs on the level of principles [37:04] usually have negligible effect in terms [37:07] of performance change [37:10] i know in my own organization i just do [37:13] not let any of my people go to outside [37:15] programs which begin with the principles [37:18] of [37:21] because when i was running an evaluation [37:23] research unit [37:25] we really had very very disappointing [37:28] results [37:30] from trying to look at the applications [37:32] of programs that said here are the seven [37:34] principles of [37:38] and ask yourself [37:40] what it is you use it's usually [37:43] the little specifics not the principles [37:50] it seems there might be a danger [37:52] depending how it's presented in design [37:53] when you when you offer a behavior model [37:56] that it's [37:58] presented or just focused on the [38:00] specific behaviors that you're trying to [38:02] teach and that [38:04] it's we have to take great care and [38:06] isolating [38:07] the other behaviors that are going on or [38:09] we run a risk of seeing of saying this [38:11] is the only way and that's where there's [38:14] everyone has their own style they can [38:15] still adapt those steps or whatever [38:19] in fact one of the things which i very [38:20] much like is some of the experimental [38:23] work going on in organizations like ddi [38:26] where they're trying to double model [38:29] where they say here is a model [38:32] practice it [38:33] try it [38:34] here is an alternative model [38:36] a somewhat different way of doing the [38:38] same thing [38:39] using the same steps but using often [38:41] different behaviors to get there [38:43] trying to build some sort of flexibility [38:45] into that process [38:47] but um perhaps we might come on and [38:49] discuss behavior modelling because i [38:50] think it's a very interesting area right [38:51] now [38:53] just let me put up [38:54] two more [38:56] of which [38:57] this is a very important one [39:03] and that is any really good program [39:07] a sign that is good [39:08] is it's exciting to teach [39:10] and to learn [39:14] because you know a skills program in a [39:16] way [39:20] has a slight element of theatre [39:23] you know [39:25] it's got a plot [39:26] it's got a shape it's got a storyline [39:29] one of the things actually that makes me [39:32] feel just in aesthetic terms that's [39:34] often not good to put principles first [39:36] i don't think i'll put principles first [39:40] if i was for example writing a play [39:43] where i'd say well the punch line is [39:46] that the person who committed the murder [39:48] was now let's watch a play [39:50] you know [39:51] it's very often true that we are [39:53] designing a piece of theater i don't [39:56] mean that in the sense that we're [39:57] designing a piece of deception [39:59] but what i mean is we're designing an [40:01] experience which has a continuity a [40:04] storyline which seems to unfold [40:07] which involves people in that process [40:11] consequently i i always admire the kind [40:13] of design which leaves people at the end [40:16] of the day with a significant thought [40:18] so when they go out of the classroom [40:20] they really are talking about something [40:23] i think [40:24] that's like ending the first act you [40:27] know [40:27] on a rather key line [40:29] i always like the sort of program which [40:31] has people wanting the next piece [40:33] because it's going to resolve the last [40:35] piece [40:39] any program which is boring to teach [40:42] ultimately becomes boring to learn [40:45] here [40:47] and i i think we have to do often a much [40:49] better job of saying how do we inject [40:52] little excitement a little energy [40:56] now often [40:59] i think there's temptations to do that [41:00] for the wrong reason you know this this [41:02] is a dull program a little pizzazz [41:04] somewhere can't we um can we put [41:07] materials in two colors or something [41:09] i i i fall into that one very often what [41:12] i'm talking about here something more [41:14] fundamental [41:16] i'm really talking about how do you make [41:18] an experience [41:21] unfold how do you make it come alive and [41:23] live [41:25] just as you would piece of theater [41:27] i think for each of us if you think [41:29] programs you've been through or [41:31] experiences you've been through where [41:32] you've learned something there is that [41:34] feeling of of movement the storyline is [41:38] going along is not a lot of disconnected [41:40] things [41:41] the excitement is in seeing the plot [41:43] unfold and seeing the integration [41:46] that's the kind of design [41:48] that's hardest to go for because [41:50] especially if you're really ruthlessly [41:53] looking towards performance-based [41:56] design [41:57] you're looking at a very scientific [41:59] process [42:01] a very quantified a very measured [42:04] an exact process [42:07] one of the things you have to watch out [42:08] for [42:09] is that it's horribly easy [42:12] to allow that to rule the excitement of [42:15] the design [42:17] let me though [42:19] look at the tenth and maybe the most [42:20] important criterion especially if [42:24] your objective [42:26] is to impact on the way people perform [42:28] in their jobs [42:30] and and that's this [42:33] you you have to ask does the program [42:36] have [42:37] a link [42:39] to some form of on-the-job reinforcement [42:53] because if you [42:55] if you don't have that link [42:57] your [42:58] chances of success are [43:01] very [43:02] limited [43:04] and let me let me put up a couple of [43:08] simple little models which illustrate [43:11] unfortunately [43:12] one of the [43:14] most [43:15] dismal of all conclusions you can draw [43:17] about training [43:19] that's this [43:21] it would seem if we take an ideal [43:25] if we look at what in big letters [43:28] should happen [43:30] in an ideal piece of training [43:36] and you'll notice during the day i will [43:37] draw a zillion of these two [43:40] axis graphs [43:43] if we're trying to measure here [43:45] improvement [43:46] in performance [43:49] and along this axis we're measuring [43:51] time [43:54] i'd like you to assume that [43:56] at some point we're going to put in a [43:58] piece of training [43:59] just [44:00] here [44:01] at this point in time [44:03] let's put a a t for training [44:07] so what is going to happen is we're [44:09] going to take somebody performing at a [44:11] given level put them through a piece of [44:13] training and we'll see what it is that [44:15] happens [44:18] well suppose the objective of the [44:20] training is to teach people [44:22] a change of behavior to teach them a new [44:24] behavior [44:25] whatever that might be [44:28] instantly notice there i'm putting [44:30] something almost on the level of a [44:31] principle [44:32] it might have been [44:34] more effective as a piece of [44:35] communication [44:36] to say suppose we're teaching people to [44:40] ask more questions in an interview [44:43] or something of this sort anyway [44:46] never mind i can break my own rules if [44:48] no one else can and here is somebody who [44:51] is using a certain behavior at a [44:52] particular level and we put them through [44:54] training which aims to increase the [44:56] behavior [44:57] theoretically [44:59] we're looking for something like this [45:02] to happen to the behavior [45:06] that during the training it begins to [45:08] change [45:10] after the training when people have all [45:11] the practice opportunity that the job [45:13] affords it changes even more and [45:17] ultimately approaches a performance peak [45:20] that's a very nice piece of theory [45:22] let's also [45:24] look at something which is possibly the [45:27] most important distinction that you can [45:29] make [45:30] there is a very important distinction to [45:32] make between a behavior [45:36] and the result of a behavior [45:44] i paused for a long while because i've [45:46] once again given you a statement on a [45:47] level of principle i think it becomes [45:50] more effective to understand it if you [45:52] say [45:53] uh [45:54] let's take an example of of what i what [45:58] i mean before i take the example let me [46:00] look at the result of a behavior let's [46:02] assume a behavior is getting this sort [46:03] of result [46:05] we have no measurement of the results [46:06] during training [46:08] people learn a new behavior or an [46:10] improved behavior what does it do to [46:11] their results [46:13] it looks as though [46:15] this sort of curve is characteristic [46:18] the results of a behavior [46:20] don't follow behavior change exactly [46:24] that is results lag behind and there is [46:27] this phenomenon known to the technical [46:30] as an incorporation lag but known to [46:32] simple-minded people like me as a result [46:35] dip [46:37] i made a point to you on the level [46:38] principle now let me make it in a much [46:40] more specific kind of way [46:44] ah [46:44] i will [46:46] give you an example of performance [46:50] by showing you a little device i have [46:52] here [46:54] this this is a glock line float line [46:56] it's a small musical instrument [46:59] originally from saxony in the 15th [47:02] century it it went out of fashion [47:05] irretrievably [47:06] the crumb horn was beating the hell out [47:08] of this in the marketplace of central [47:10] europe all through the um late 15th [47:13] early 16th centuries because it's [47:16] excruciatingly difficult to play and it [47:18] sounds lousy not not a good sort of [47:21] product to have on the [47:22] market and and the recorder was really [47:25] making inroads against this now [47:27] just just to just to illustrate that i'm [47:30] not giving you total [47:33] let me let me play um [47:37] a bar or two on it soon i can make a [47:38] noise [47:47] so i can make a noise [47:50] now [47:50] here's the noise that you hear [47:53] my behavior [47:54] or the result of my behavior [48:00] the noise you hear is the result [48:03] what's the behavior that brings the [48:04] result [48:07] how i blow what i do with my fingers [48:09] here [48:11] now [48:14] let's [48:15] now be as a case study [48:18] in what can easily happen [48:20] in terms of [48:22] behavior [48:26] if that's what should happen i'm now [48:28] going to tell you a sob [48:29] story about what actually happens [48:33] by [48:34] looking at [48:36] exactly the same graph [48:38] in my own case [48:39] this time instead of the theory what [48:41] actually happens [48:45] which tends to look much more like this [48:48] if again we're measuring improvement [48:50] here [48:51] and we're measuring time here [48:53] and here's the piece of training [48:55] let's take exactly what you have just [48:58] seen namely my behavior in the [49:01] performance of a skill [49:02] here i am [49:04] and the behavior i'm looking at is how i [49:06] use my fingers [49:08] now i go along to a lesson with my [49:10] teacher [49:11] and my teacher says [49:13] neil notice when you play this you um [49:17] you tend to keep your fingers very high [49:18] you let them raise up off the keys [49:21] see like they're up there and my teacher [49:24] says you should try and keep them low [49:28] it's much harder but she says if you [49:31] don't keep your fingers low you'll never [49:33] learn to play the fast passengers so i [49:35] want you to change your behavior [49:39] i want you to practice keeping your [49:40] fingers low so while i'm with her i keep [49:42] my fingers low [49:46] now [49:48] do you think it sounds better when i [49:49] first try to keep my fingers low [49:52] not on the least i'm changing my [49:54] behavior but the results at first [49:57] don't immediately follow the behavior [50:00] change your grip in a sport [50:02] is the next game better [50:04] almost certainly not you go down [50:07] yeah [50:08] change your style of training and you [50:10] know just the next session you run feel [50:12] more comfortable more assured [50:14] as it goes smoothly chances are not [50:17] in almost any performance change there [50:19] is a lag between using the behavior and [50:22] the behavior being results so what [50:24] happens here's my here's the results the [50:27] sound that comes out [50:30] i try the new behavior and down it goes [50:34] it's not bringing results so i abandon [50:36] it [50:41] that's the most characteristic curve as [50:43] soon as the results are looking bad [50:46] i go back to my old behavior so here i [50:48] am [50:49] a few thousand miles from my teacher and [50:53] i've got my fingers and we all do it [50:55] don't we [50:56] now this [50:58] is the most crucial and critical [51:02] of all things to hit a training [51:05] effectiveness [51:07] because if you're teaching people a [51:08] skill [51:10] you are always going to be victim of the [51:11] results dip [51:14] because how how do you judge [51:17] my performance as people who are [51:19] listening [51:21] you judge by the results [51:24] you're not going to reinforce and reward [51:26] me for using the right behavior because [51:28] as far as you're concerned you're as [51:29] listening to the sound it makes [51:31] how does a sales manager for example [51:33] judge salespeople [51:35] in terms of why are they using the right [51:36] behavior are they getting the orders are [51:38] they getting the orders [51:40] how does a manager judge any of his [51:43] supervisors [51:45] in terms of how they're handling their [51:46] people [51:48] not by are they using the right behavior [51:51] but [51:52] is it getting results [51:54] and often the right behavior is going to [51:57] have to go through an incorporation [51:58] period before the results will come [52:01] now as you begin to explore the [52:03] consequences of that the consequences of [52:06] it are horrendous [52:08] in xerox cooperation for example we once [52:10] did a study which showed that if we take [52:12] the amount of change brought about by [52:14] training [52:15] as being a hundred percent [52:18] of learning [52:20] there's an 87 [52:22] loss [52:24] in the programs we studied within a [52:26] month [52:29] now [52:30] i feel a little less complacent about [52:33] that sort of loss when [52:35] you put it in terms of 87 cents in the [52:37] skills dollar have gone down the drain [52:40] within a month [52:42] because skills training is an expensive [52:43] business [52:45] and that's a loss that literally cannot [52:47] be afforded [52:49] so we have to ask ourselves if we're in [52:52] the smiles business that doesn't really [52:54] matter [52:55] because if people perceive that they've [52:57] got a lot out of the training it doesn't [52:59] matter whether they apply it or not hey [53:01] they go away satisfied customers and in [53:03] fact that dip that results dip can help [53:05] us [53:07] one of the things which we found which [53:09] has always rather delighted me [53:11] was about the guilt feelings that people [53:13] get following training when they don't [53:15] apply the lessons in the training [53:17] one of the ways of resolving the guilt [53:18] feelings is to say splendid training and [53:20] everyone else should go through it [53:22] you know you'll get very good reports [53:24] back on the training even when you don't [53:25] necessarily get performance change [53:26] because people feel it's their fault [53:28] they haven't performed i know i should [53:30] have done i'm like that with my client [53:32] floatline teacher [53:34] i don't blame her [53:36] because i know that she's right [53:40] but i [53:41] do feel inadequacy in me [53:44] and consequently i would recommend [53:46] anyone to go to her to be trained hey [53:48] she's great [53:51] but [53:51] i still raise my fingers [53:54] now [53:55] what is your criterion of success the [53:57] satisfied customer or [54:00] the satisfied customer who changes [54:01] performance [54:04] now [54:05] in a way we're talking about what is [54:07] potentially a temporary phenomenon [54:12] you see if you look at what should [54:14] happen [54:15] it's pretty clear [54:16] that if we were to just block off this [54:18] immediate period and move out to here [54:21] there is no performance problem [54:23] the moment [54:24] i keep my fingers low and it sounds [54:26] better [54:27] i've not got a problem i'll keep doing [54:29] it [54:30] because it's working [54:31] the moment when you've changed your grip [54:34] you find you're playing better [54:36] you'll keep going at it [54:38] the moment [54:40] you're handling a disciplinary interview [54:41] in a different way and you begin to see [54:43] it's getting your results [54:46] you're fine [54:47] because when the results build up the [54:49] results are self-reinforcing [54:52] they reinforce the behavior and the [54:54] behavior keeps going it's in that [54:55] intermediate stage [54:57] that you have to have something else and [54:59] it's here that you have to build in [55:02] some form [55:05] of on-the-job reinforcement [55:10] the question becomes [55:12] how do you reinforce the behavior until [55:15] the behavior brings results [55:19] if you haven't got an answer to that [55:20] question [55:22] then [55:24] an 87 loss is not at all [55:27] uncharacteristic that was an 87 loss [55:29] from what i regard is quite a good [55:31] program [55:35] now for me [55:37] this is a truly fundamental issue [55:40] in training design [55:43] and it becomes a fundamental issue [55:45] if you switch your philosophy as a [55:48] training organization [55:50] away from being an organization [55:53] which exists [55:55] to put on things in the classroom that [55:57] please people [55:59] towards an organization which has a [56:02] measurable productivity and business [56:04] impact [56:06] because in one case [56:08] what i've said here doesn't matter too [56:09] much [56:10] in the other case it should be your [56:12] biggest single worry [56:15] about any program you design or run [56:40] you

===FILE=== veA8pG3X6A4 - SPIN Selling by Neil Rackham | Sales Interview | Aaron Evans Sales Training.txt
https://youtu.be/veA8pG3X6A4
SPIN Selling by Neil Rackham | Sales Interview | Aaron Evans Sales Training

[0:02] well welcome to this conversation [0:03] uh we're joined by a very very special [0:05] guest in my opinion [0:07] um now whether you've been selling or [0:10] even if you've been on the other side of [0:12] the table and you've made a purchasing [0:14] there's a strong chance that this [0:16] person's research [0:17] books and processes have influenced you [0:20] in some way [0:21] and that is of course the author of spin [0:23] selling the 1988 [0:24] absolute mega book neil rackham or [0:26] professor nilham i should say neil [0:29] well thank you erin thank you hopefully [0:32] introduction didn't make you blush too [0:34] much but i think you deserve all the [0:35] plaudits you get and i'm really really [0:37] excited about this conversation [0:40] so what i'd love to do i'd love to jump [0:42] straight in right i mean i think a large [0:44] um part of the reason people are [0:46] watching this conversation is because of [0:48] the history [0:49] of sales and the history of sales [0:50] processes and methodologies [0:52] and obviously you take the claim of [0:54] coming up with the with spin selling [0:56] so a really good place to start would be [0:58] let's go right back to the research that [1:00] you started doing around spin selling [1:02] give us an understanding of what exactly [1:05] it was you were doing [1:07] well i'd while i was a [1:10] research fellow at sheffield university [1:13] i developed a method for studying [1:16] the way people interacted with each [1:17] other just by [1:19] counting the number of times they used [1:21] certain types of behavior [1:23] and we'd applied that to people in [1:27] we'd applied it to teams [1:30] we'd started look at this in negotiation [1:34] and then suddenly it struck me wow [1:37] selling is the best place of all for [1:39] looking at this [1:41] mostly because selling is magic [1:45] in a meeting how do you know whether a [1:47] meeting's been successful [1:49] you don't so it's very hard to know what [1:52] kind of behavior makes you successful [1:55] on the other hand in sales there's [1:58] always a result [2:00] now of course in simple sales [2:03] you either make a sale or you get turned [2:07] in more complicated sales there's some [2:10] outcomes in between but they're quite [2:14] you know whether a call is succeeded by [2:17] what it leads to [2:18] and where it takes you so that was a [2:21] wonderful thing and the other thing was [2:24] it's an interaction between people where [2:26] money changes hands [2:28] and that means you could always get [2:30] research funds for studying it [2:33] and you get access so [2:37] for example um [2:40] we right now in the united states [2:43] there's a [2:45] a major project trying to look at the [2:47] behavior of mediators during a mediation [2:51] well a lot of people don't want to have [2:55] a researcher in there looking at what's [2:57] going on because it's a very private [3:00] on the other hand sales people say come [3:02] in come in [3:04] so it it was a it was a friendly [3:08] with a good outcome and lots of research [3:12] and so i i i'm not a salesperson [3:16] i i'm i'm research psychologist [3:20] and so it was irresistible though [3:23] because nobody had really [3:26] studied it there were an awful lot of [3:30] opinions about how to sell [3:32] not a lot of science yeah it was just a [3:35] chance to bring a scientific methodology [3:38] to um a set of problems like selling [3:42] yeah i guess that's what's quite unique [3:44] right the time was quite unique [3:46] and we see more and more of it now with [3:47] the research is actually coming up with [3:50] really interesting behavioral stuff that [3:51] affects sales so much [3:53] um i guess the question for me was is [3:56] that when you were going through this [3:57] research at what point did you think [4:00] do you know what i'm on to something [4:01] here there's something unique [4:03] about what i'm doing and the outcomes [4:05] that i'm seeing [4:07] what was that light bulb moment like for [4:08] you i [4:10] i think the light bulb happened um when [4:14] i first started look at more complicated [4:17] large sales so [4:20] if if you want to study things you [4:22] usually start with the simplest thing [4:24] you could find [4:25] and um i i started off in [4:28] dixon's photographic stores just [4:31] watching salespeople [4:33] selling all the way from rolls of film [4:37] to cameras and and it was [4:41] maybe five ten minutes of interaction [4:44] and and i was drawing some conclusions i [4:47] was thinking hey [4:48] some of the traditional methods that we [4:50] teach people in selling [4:51] seem to be working quite well and and i [4:54] i was thinking okay we can confirm [4:57] a lot of the existing wisdom and then [5:01] i got a chance in xerox [5:04] to just have a look at the more [5:06] complicated sales that they were doing [5:10] and none of the stuff worked [5:13] when we looked at the most successful [5:17] wow what they were doing was entirely [5:22] from what the the the book said they [5:25] should be doing [5:26] and and that's where i knew i was onto [5:28] something no [5:30] unfortunately it's not what i wanted to [5:31] be on to you know i would have been [5:33] quite happy to have said hey [5:35] this method shows we're on the right [5:39] what it was doing was showing hey this [5:42] a lot of our conventional wisdom is not [5:45] not holding up well the results are the [5:50] let me give you a couple of examples um [5:54] one of the things which we've been [5:56] taught was objection handling [5:59] really marks out top salespeople they're [6:02] really good at handling objections well [6:07] that's true in small sales [6:10] but once you get to complicated sales [6:13] that can take months and have many [6:17] the difference between the top people [6:19] and the average salespeople [6:21] it's not how they handle objections [6:25] it's the number of objections they get [6:27] in the first place [6:30] you see what what we were finding was [6:33] most sales people [6:34] sell in the kind of way that creates [6:39] so if i were to say to you erin that the [6:41] reason why you need this product [6:43] is is going to help your marriage and it [6:47] turns out you're single i guess i'm [6:49] going to get an objection [6:51] yeah and the most common objection is [6:53] well that that that's not what i want [6:55] that doesn't work for me [6:58] that's much more i wanted to pay for [7:01] now though that very skilled sales [7:05] prevent objections they don't handle [7:09] so they'd receive [7:12] maybe a third the number of objections [7:15] that the average salesperson receives [7:18] and then you get something like that and [7:20] you start thinking hmm [7:22] the conventional wisdom has got a long [7:23] way to go [7:26] and and so in [7:29] in all sorts of respects as we began [7:32] looking at it we found that things we [7:34] were being taught [7:36] really really didn't hold up and old [7:40] that came about in the 1920s [7:44] you know the 1920s between 1921 1924 [7:47] was an incredible period in sales [7:50] had people like ek strong who [7:54] wrote a book called the psychology of [7:55] selling in july of 1925 [7:58] as i recall in that book he talked about [8:02] objection handling techniques closing [8:05] open and closed questions all these [8:09] they all came at that little three or [8:12] four year period when [8:13] people began to look at sales techniques [8:18] and most of those techniques maybe work [8:20] in the small sale but the evidence is [8:22] they're counterproductive and they're [8:25] closing people who use a lot of closing [8:28] techniques are [8:29] less likely to make a sale if the sale [8:31] is complicated [8:35] and things like open and closed [8:38] questions in [8:40] in july of 1925 ek strong said [8:43] i'm an interviewer i interview people a [8:46] lot and i find that i ask [8:47] open questions i learn much more [8:51] because i get answers i don't expect [8:55] and so open question is going to be more [8:57] powerful than closed questions [8:59] so when you sell you should also use [9:01] always use [9:02] open questions well we did a study in [9:07] where we were able to go around with [9:09] ibm's top 10 sales people [9:11] in europe the the ratio of open to [9:15] questions was exactly the same as in [9:18] salesforce at large [9:22] it it didn't seem to make much [9:26] so our first findings were findings like [9:29] negative things what we'll find out was [9:32] what didn't work [9:34] and unfortunately there's a lot of stuff [9:36] that doesn't work [9:38] and then after that our next [9:41] phase was starting to find some things [9:43] that did work [9:44] so we figured out for example if it [9:47] doesn't seem to matter whether a [9:49] question is open [9:50] or closed if the ratio of open to closed [9:53] questions doesn't predict [9:54] whether the sale will be successful [9:58] there's a different way of looking at [10:02] and what we found was successful sales [10:05] tended to use a sequence of questions [10:09] they it was a kind of pattern so they [10:12] begin with [10:13] fact-finding questions they just sort of [10:15] establish the facts [10:17] we call those situation questions you [10:19] know what are you doing now [10:21] what's your present equipment how long [10:24] have you had it [10:27] then they'd start asking questions about [10:30] problems things like are you satisfied [10:33] with your present equipment [10:37] do you have speed problems with it [10:41] can it do this kind of thing [10:44] and is it probably can't so [10:47] you we'd find there was that kind of [10:49] natural progression [10:51] salespeople went through of fact-finding [10:54] followed by trying to dig out some kind [10:55] of problem [10:57] and when you think about it that's got [10:59] to be at the center of selling [11:01] but after all if you don't have a [11:05] why would you need to buy anything if [11:07] you're 100 [11:08] happy with the way things are you don't [11:12] to go out purchasing it's when [11:15] something is not right when there's [11:18] something you haven't [11:18] got whether something you need well [11:22] you have to find out about that and [11:26] what we found was less successful [11:30] asked mostly situation questions and [11:32] often they didn't ask about problems at [11:35] they went into a pitch now the most [11:38] successful salespeople [11:40] pretty quickly left behind the [11:42] fact-finding questions [11:44] and started to explore problems they [11:46] were creating more value for customers [11:48] by doing that [11:50] well the other thing we discovered there [11:53] is that both salespeople when they've [11:56] been selling for a couple of years [11:58] learn that lesson by themselves they [12:01] it's really smart to ask your customers [12:03] about the problems they have [12:06] and the more you ask about those things [12:07] the more likely you are to make a sale [12:10] well that piece [12:15] marks our experience less experienced [12:18] but when you look at top sales people [12:21] they're doing something different [12:22] and the first time we found that we [12:24] really didn't understand it we hadn't a [12:27] what we found was this average sales [12:33] tend to give their pitch [12:36] they tend to explain their product they [12:39] talk about the advantages of what they [12:40] offer they talk about [12:41] solutions much much quicker [12:45] than top salespeople top salespeople [12:48] didn't talk about solutions [12:50] until very late in the sales process [12:54] now that's interesting isn't it because [12:56] what are they doing [12:58] if they're not talking about solutions [13:00] and what we found was [13:01] they were using two other types of [13:06] the first was what we called implication [13:09] so let me contrast top salespeople [13:13] with average salespeople average [13:18] do you use this kind of machine [13:21] situation question customer yeah [13:26] um do you find it's [13:29] difficult to reload this machine [13:33] problem question yeah says the customer [13:36] now for 400 000 [13:40] we could sell you a machine which solves [13:42] that problem [13:44] see users they've gone into a solution [13:47] before the customer's ready [13:48] now look at the look a little really [13:50] skilled salesperson [13:51] do you have problems loading the machine [13:55] um as a result of that does that mean [13:58] the machine's out of service [14:02] yeah i want what what does that cost you [14:06] and does it create a bottleneck for [14:08] other things [14:10] oh it does yeah so they they go [14:13] down under the problem they look at the [14:15] implications they [14:16] milk it they they do that and then [14:21] they ask what we call ugly name this [14:25] need payoff questions questions about [14:28] actually i can say to you because you're [14:30] british something which the rest of the [14:33] is puzzled about and that is when [14:36] um when we found these types of [14:39] questions four types of questions [14:41] situation problem implication [14:44] value spiv is the acronym [14:48] and anywhere else in the world [14:52] spiv is is a fine acronym but uniquely [14:57] uh spiv of course is the guy who says [14:59] you want to buy a stolen watch [15:01] um and it was a little bit down market [15:05] so we use this horrible term need payout [15:07] questions but basically [15:08] the question is about value so [15:13] for example let me let me show you those [15:16] questions in contrast between [15:18] a very proficient salesperson one who [15:20] isn't the average salesperson [15:24] um talks about their product [15:27] and the customer says you know i i like [15:30] the fact [15:32] that it's it's very compact and doesn't [15:35] take up a lot of space [15:37] the average sales person says yeah it is [15:39] isn't it it is great [15:43] the top salespeople says [15:47] why does that matter that it's compact [15:50] how does that help you what does it let [15:52] you do that you can't do [15:54] right now why is that important [15:58] now those are the questions about what [16:00] the customer [16:01] values we call them need payoff [16:04] so if i just put it all together in a [16:06] little acronym [16:08] what made the book famous was a nice [16:10] that's a nice little simple [16:11] acronym spin situation questions to [16:15] establish in fact [16:17] problem questions to establish [16:20] issues dissatisfactions [16:24] implication questions to look more [16:26] deeply at those things [16:28] and need payoff questions to explore [16:31] what the customer wants and values [16:33] and they tend to come in that broad [16:37] so that that that's what we [16:40] we found we found a lot of other stuff [16:42] as well [16:43] because we studied 35 000 sales calls [16:47] and it took us 12 years and we had at [16:50] one point a research [16:51] team of 48 people working on it [16:55] full time so you know it was a [16:58] it was a huge study no one will ever be [17:01] able to afford to do a study like that [17:05] and we were lucky and so we found a lot [17:07] of other stuff [17:08] but that spin model is the bit that [17:10] people remember [17:12] it's it's a very simple useful [17:15] technique and um you know many millions [17:18] of sales people around the world [17:20] took two years again yeah it's [17:23] fascinating and i think that for me i [17:26] one thing that's great is that obviously [17:27] you could ratify it for the simple fact [17:29] that you had [17:30] so much data and that was unique at the [17:32] time right it was [17:33] very very um i guess you'd say anecdotal [17:36] a lot of sales training a lot of sales [17:38] excellence was anecdotal [17:39] but you guys were in a position and the [17:40] fact that it was almost like a [17:42] magnetotopist right you guys [17:43] spent so much time so much effort and so [17:46] much resource in creating this [17:49] and what i find fascinating about it now [17:50] is just how ubiquitous spin [17:52] actually is and you know you speak to [17:55] lots of such trainers sales people [17:57] and they often pick you up on a [17:59] methodology and they say well that [18:00] doesn't quite work anymore or [18:01] yeah you know customers have come wise [18:03] to that but spin seems to be the only [18:05] one that's the exception [18:07] where almost everyone has uniquely said [18:09] you know what as a questioning framework [18:12] is probably the best out there because [18:14] of the thought process it creates within [18:17] the customer or the prospect [18:18] and also because of the outcomes that [18:21] that you know that you ultimately get [18:23] not everyone's good at doing it [18:24] obviously you have to finesse it and you [18:26] have to get the sales person good at [18:27] doing it [18:28] but i guess the next logical question is [18:30] how it was received right you had this [18:32] wonderful piece of research that you [18:34] turned into a book and it was really [18:36] accessible because of the acronym and [18:38] luckily you went with spin not [18:39] i always wondered whether that was [18:41] intentional whether that was like worked [18:42] in because of [18:44] uh to make it sound like spins it was [18:45] interesting you're hearing you say that [18:47] but what i'd love to know is how was it [18:49] received and what was the explosion like [18:51] when it was like wow this is like [18:53] completely game-changing [18:57] let me tell you how it was initially [18:59] received um [19:01] i i was doing this research [19:04] and um i was approached by princess hall [19:08] the big publishing house and they said [19:11] we we hear you're doing this massive [19:13] piece of research on sales [19:14] would you be interested in producing a [19:16] book on it i said yes [19:18] so sent me a contract i wrote [19:21] the initial draft of spin selling i sent [19:25] it to them [19:27] they sent it out to their expert [19:30] who had written a book called 101 [19:33] surefire closers [19:36] and he sent back a review to princess [19:39] and i can't remember the details i can [19:42] remember the opening line [19:44] and that is there is but one truth in [19:47] dung heap of words [19:52] and and then he went on to say if you [19:54] publish this you'll be a laughingstock [19:56] because this goes so against [19:58] conventional wisdom [20:00] and uh princess all dropped it i had to [20:03] go to [20:03] eight publishers before i conned [20:07] into publishing it i only did that by by [20:11] how many copies would you have to sell [20:14] for this to be a success and they said [20:16] between three thousand and five thousand [20:20] and i said okay i'll guarantee a success [20:26] any unsold copies if you do a five [20:29] thousand print run [20:31] uh at the end of six months i will buy [20:35] so you can't lose and they hand them [20:38] hard and said [20:39] okay and they did it [20:43] well it so happened that they'd sold [20:46] thousand before it was actually [20:49] in print in terms of advanced orders [20:53] at that time i was working with some [20:55] very big sales forces [20:57] ibm xerox citibank [21:00] you know very very big ones and xerox [21:04] had six thousand sales people and they [21:06] decided they wanted a copy of the book [21:08] for all [21:08] six thousand so advanced sales were huge [21:13] uh so it turned out to be a winner for [21:15] them and not much of a risk for me [21:17] but it does show that it was [21:22] very contrary to the conventional wisdom [21:25] of the early to mid 1980s it's [21:29] it's really interesting and i guess that [21:30] you know that that story is incredible [21:33] because it was so different that an [21:35] in-house expert actually said well this [21:37] is a ladybug [21:38] right but little did they know that they [21:39] had in hands probably [21:41] the most influential sales book ever [21:44] written right i mean like i said it's [21:46] it stood the test of time what do you [21:48] think that is [21:49] interestingly i mean you know we're [21:51] constantly being told that sars is [21:53] changing because of the environment [21:54] because of technology because of market [21:57] because of lots of different things [21:58] right sales has to evolve and change [22:01] but spin selling has has sort of stood [22:04] the test of time [22:05] even versus um more robust sales [22:08] methodologies so i mean end-to-end sales [22:11] you know spin is very much a questioning [22:13] framework right what [22:14] what what do you think it is that's um [22:18] made it have such great longevity but [22:20] also been able to adapt with the times [22:22] as well [22:24] well i think above everything is [22:27] that it benefits the customer [22:31] you know after all the customer wants to [22:34] their needs fulfilled [22:38] wants to be dealing with someone who [22:40] doesn't just [22:41] push products but really tries to [22:46] what the customers issues are their [22:49] what the implications those issues are [22:52] what the value is the customer [22:54] of coming up with the solution and spin [22:56] would never have survived [22:58] it had just been a technique that that [23:03] to manipulate a customer manipulative [23:06] techniques have a short lifespan [23:09] and it survived because it became [23:12] a way of relating to your customers that [23:15] turned out to be beneficial for both [23:18] because selling is an interaction and if [23:21] you just benefit one side [23:23] it's probably not going to have much [23:26] it's only when both buyer and seller [23:30] that you have something which which [23:33] really long lasting yeah i guess the [23:35] uniqueness at the time as well is that [23:37] it actually provided value as a process [23:39] right um by taking the customer on this [23:42] journey with spin [23:43] you're actually being additive to their [23:46] value because you're helping them [23:48] pitfalls and problems but you're also [23:51] with the implication stuff which i love [23:53] which you know [23:54] i i train on a daily basis and coach on [23:57] a daily basis [23:59] where it was unique is it actually [24:01] showed the customer the potential [24:03] of what could happen as well as just [24:05] what their current state is in [24:07] you know i always use the example of [24:09] someone asking you to find a fire engine [24:10] versus selling them fire retardant [24:12] a year earlier right and i guess this [24:14] was what was quite unique about it [24:16] is the value that it added to the [24:18] customer and the kind of foresight that [24:20] it helped them give [24:21] what was that interesting when you came [24:23] across that part in [24:25] in your research yeah i [24:28] i suppose we we started [24:32] off not fully understanding [24:35] um why this worked the way it worked [24:39] but soon we hit on to the well it's [24:43] benefiting the customer [24:46] but i i think beyond that one of the [24:49] reasons why it works [24:51] is to be technical about it you have [24:54] more degrees of [24:56] freedom when you get to the level of [25:00] see if someone's got a problem [25:06] you may have one solution to that [25:08] problem but once you ask what's that [25:10] problem lead to what's that problem [25:12] cause how serious is that from [25:16] you then start to uncover things where [25:18] you may be able to offer a lot more [25:21] you have more degrees of freedom to do [25:23] what you need to do [25:25] to configure a solution and that's [25:27] especially true [25:29] nowadays when so much is customized [25:32] that understanding the depth of your [25:35] understanding of a customer's problems [25:37] and issues [25:38] allows you to craft richer and better [25:42] and it's those that degrees of freedom [25:46] where you have [25:46] more more of a solution array [25:50] that really seems to stand out [25:52] interesting fascinating [25:54] um now obviously we're we're living in a [25:57] different time now [25:58] um particularly as we're going through [25:59] like probably the biggest disruptive [26:02] force on a market [26:03] in the history of selling right and it's [26:05] probably bigger than the great [26:06] depression right [26:07] what we're seeing now what in your [26:10] um which is vast and obviously sitting [26:13] on a different side of the table from [26:15] sales people because of the research [26:16] that you've done and obviously the [26:18] probably millions of touch points you've [26:20] done with sales people [26:22] where do you see future of selling [26:24] moving what do you think the next [26:25] thing is or where is it gonna where's it [26:29] gonna go do you think [26:30] with everything that's affecting sales [26:32] in general [26:34] yeah i i think in [26:38] in the year 2000 i i wrote a book with [26:42] um head of the sales practice of [26:46] a book called rethinking the sales force [26:49] and what we were looking at there was [26:51] that selling was [26:52] falling into two very distinct types [26:56] what we call transactional sales and [26:58] consultative sales [27:00] in a transactional sale the customer [27:03] already knows the answer before the [27:06] sales process begins [27:09] that's that's his definition so if if i [27:12] call you and i say erin [27:14] i i want to buy 600 widgets what's your [27:19] that's a transactional sale you don't [27:21] have to tell me about widgets [27:23] you don't have to help me understand [27:25] what problems widgets solve [27:28] for you you know about widgets you [27:31] probably know more than i do [27:33] so all you want to do is have easy [27:37] reliable cheap acquisition [27:41] now that kind of sale is moving [27:44] out of face-to-face selling it [27:48] it started even in the year 2000 and by [27:51] the majority of those sales take place [27:54] over the internet [27:55] without any direct mediation of sales [28:00] and they should do because the customer [28:03] can self-select because they know [28:05] what they want they know the answer [28:09] now contrast that [28:12] with the kind of customer who might call [28:15] you and say aaron um [28:17] do you guys know anything about [28:20] um purple widgets because we we don't [28:24] really understand [28:26] um we we think we have a problem with [28:29] our widgets [28:30] we're not quite sure can can you help [28:34] now that's the consultative sale in the [28:36] consultative sale [28:39] the customer has not got the answer [28:43] looking for help and what we find is [28:47] is between about 2000 [28:51] and 2020 more than 80 percent of those [28:54] transactional sales moved out of [28:56] face-to-face selling [28:59] what's left the salesperson has to [29:02] value by their problem-solving [29:05] another way of saying it is the [29:08] becomes more important than the product [29:13] because if if the product was doing the [29:17] it you just go over the internet no no [29:21] all the pro all the product is for a [29:23] good salesperson is a [29:24] tool to help them solve customer [29:29] so the new salesperson is driven by [29:34] rather than persuasion selling is not [29:37] about persuasion anymore [29:40] it's it is about creative problem [29:44] and you know that that is a huge [29:47] change at the top end of selling [29:52] there's another change happening and i [29:54] find this personally very very [29:56] interesting because [29:57] i i found myself involved recently [30:00] in a lot of sales that are in the [30:04] hundreds of millions of dollars range [30:07] really big things [30:09] that might take a couple of years to [30:13] very often those sales are not at all [30:17] about products services [30:20] anything of that so the crucial thing [30:23] there is those sales are often [30:26] a redesign of the [30:29] interface between two companies [30:34] let me put it another way selling is [30:37] about creating value [30:40] and we're all in the value of creating [30:42] business if you don't create value for [30:43] your customers [30:44] you're not contributing anything what's [30:47] the highest value you can create [30:50] well often it's redesigning the customer [30:54] now let me give a simple example of this [30:57] happened years ago i i was working with [31:01] united parcel service and and for years [31:06] they've been trying to make a sale to a [31:09] company called hillenbrand [31:11] now hillenbrand makes surgical beds [31:14] medical equipment they they do a pretty [31:18] good line in coffins [31:19] too if the uh surgical beds don't work [31:23] they must be doing very well worldwide [31:25] right now [31:26] anyway they were about a four billion [31:28] dollar company [31:30] and ups badly wanted to [31:33] sell them ups parcel carrying capability [31:38] and for years they tried to do this and [31:40] they finally [31:42] got into one small division [31:45] and they killed themselves taking care [31:48] of the small division [31:49] and doing fabulous stuff and unnatural [31:52] acts to please the customer [31:54] and they they finally had the time when [31:56] they could come and make a presentation [31:59] to the main board now [32:02] the account manager had just left [32:06] and the account was taken over by a very [32:09] sales salesperson in the ups that i'd [32:12] worked with [32:14] and he [32:17] he thought about it and he said you know [32:19] what the problem is [32:22] they have 480 delivery trucks of their [32:25] in the company why the hell would they [32:27] want to take business away from their [32:29] own trucks [32:30] and put them to ups it just didn't work [32:34] but as he thought about he said you know [32:37] the stuff [32:38] that we've been thinking about with you [32:42] actually would work if we redesigned the [32:46] between ups and hindenburg and so he he [32:50] went to this meeting [32:51] and instead of pitching how great ups [32:54] he said you have 480 trucks [32:59] how much does it cost you to buy a truck [33:01] you see [33:02] we have 90 000 trucks and we have [33:06] amazing leverage [33:09] with the manufacturers for getting our [33:13] suppose we were to buy your trucks for [33:15] you and split [33:17] the difference the savings ups [33:21] make a bit you'd make a bit how about [33:25] and they bought that because it was in [33:27] their interest like that [33:28] see now there was a redesign of the [33:32] the next thing he said was um [33:35] maintaining trucks i noticed that the [33:39] cost of maintenance that you that you've [33:43] is 35 percent higher than the ups [33:46] average cost [33:47] because we know exactly uh predictively [33:50] when to do the maintenance and [33:51] preventative terms [33:53] we have wonderful maintenance [33:56] why why don't we do the maintenance for [34:01] and split the savings and then after [34:04] that he said um [34:06] you know software [34:09] we have fabulous software for the [34:13] routing mapping so [34:16] we we do the logistics very efficiently [34:19] and you don't have that software [34:21] so suppose we install our software for [34:26] then and remember redesigning of the [34:30] into companies goes both ways he he also [34:33] said you know [34:34] hillenbrand is a [34:37] world class six sigma company [34:41] you you've got you're famous for it [34:45] ups is installing six sigma [34:49] we'd like to buy consulting advice from [34:53] in terms of how we do that so using [34:57] some of him and brands products and [35:01] then went to ups and some of ups as they [35:04] went to helen brandt [35:05] he had redesigned the boundary between [35:07] two corporations [35:09] and high level selling of the future is [35:11] about the redesign [35:13] of the boundary between companies [35:16] here's the rule there is more value [35:19] at the edge than there is in the middle [35:23] the amount of value you could create [35:24] inside the company is less than the [35:27] value you [35:27] create at the boundary between your [35:29] company and your suppliers [35:31] your customers your partners [35:35] interesting you were saying before right [35:38] i think [35:39] i mean it's creativity right i mean what [35:40] what you're talking about there is [35:43] who's looking at a problem from a [35:44] completely different point of view [35:46] and actually being creative in the way [35:48] they come up with a solution [35:50] but at the same time it's still really [35:53] like deeply entrenched in spin i mean [35:55] what you're talking about there is it's [35:57] alerting the customer of the problem [35:58] letting them know about a problem they [36:00] might necessarily they had [36:01] let them know the effects of that [36:02] problem and the outcomes that will [36:03] happen if they don't solve the problem [36:05] so clever so interesting it's really [36:07] interesting insight it's making me [36:08] really think about things actually which [36:10] i love which is great [36:11] um and i love that redesigning the [36:13] boundaries it's really really smart [36:15] and that example really makes it come [36:17] alive as well um [36:20] that's quite interesting because you [36:21] said you were working with the account [36:23] do you do you still get a kick out of [36:26] being i suppose at the bleeding edge of [36:29] this right so i know this was obviously [36:30] some time ago i said it was 2000 which [36:32] amazingly 21 years ago now [36:33] um but do you still like getting your [36:35] hands dirty and going on the calls and [36:37] going on the meets and stuff like that [36:39] or does your world look very different [36:42] well i i wish i had time for that now [36:44] yeah i [36:45] i i'm for my sins i'm a professor at a [36:49] couple of universities including my [36:51] old university sheffield and i i have a [36:55] research team there [36:56] of a number of post-doc [37:00] researchers and we are [37:03] looking at other elements of interaction [37:06] between people [37:07] so i've i've got a very very heavy [37:09] research agenda [37:11] and that that takes me a lot of time and [37:14] and so i i'm sort of sucked into that a [37:18] great deal [37:19] so i don't get time to go out but you [37:22] you can't help it i [37:26] pre-pandemic times just over a year ago [37:30] when there was supposedly a normal world [37:35] i i was in edinburgh where i also had a [37:39] professorship and i [37:42] i was staying in a hotel [37:46] and there were two sales people [37:49] talking or a salesperson and his manager [37:52] and they were just about to go on a call [37:54] the next day and they were [37:56] putting their strategy together like i [37:58] listened to this [38:00] i mustn't say anything no no no no [38:03] but after a while i couldn't resist i [38:05] said um [38:08] excuse me you you've got a sales call [38:10] tomorrow yeah [38:12] and and i hear you putting that together [38:14] i i [38:15] i've written some books on sales [38:19] and um i i [38:22] i wonder if i could join in on the [38:25] and and then when they found out who i [38:27] was and they both read [38:29] my stuff of course this they said [38:33] what would it cost to get you to come on [38:35] the call [38:41] to close the deal for them [38:45] and i was supposed to be at a rather [38:49] um research seminar the next day [38:53] i'll take i'll take half a day away and [38:56] i'll go with them [38:57] and i did oh wow it was it was such fun [39:01] oh i'm just just sitting there watching [39:03] it all happen [39:05] so you you cannot get away from it once [39:09] you get the disease you know it becomes [39:12] it's with you for life [39:15] absolutely yeah i mean i think i'm [39:16] hooked as well well i i could honestly [39:19] sit here talking to you all day about [39:21] sales in general and about sales [39:23] processes those methodologies and [39:24] obviously the wonderful work that you've [39:27] unfortunately we can't because obviously [39:29] you're a very busy person i am as well [39:31] i just want to thank you so much for [39:33] taking the time out to join [39:34] me today and obviously the audience is [39:36] going to get so much value from the from [39:38] the information that you've given them [39:39] the stories and also the history of spin [39:41] selling so thank you so much [39:43] thank you

===FILE=== z-l3npM7l3U - Have SPIN® Selling Problem Questions Changed Interview with Neil Rackham.txt
https://youtu.be/z-l3npM7l3U
Have SPIN® Selling Problem Questions Changed? Interview with Neil Rackham

[0:03] one of the things which we found 30 [0:06] years ago was if you ask customers about [0:10] problems you find out their needs you [0:14] find out information which helps you [0:16] sell which helps them understand their [0:19] own problems you get into areas where [0:21] they have energy and where they have [0:23] interest but in those days it was enough [0:29] to ask problems about how things are now [0:35] you can ask problem questions like are [0:38] you happy with your present supplier are [0:42] you getting the right kind of [0:43] performance out of the equipment you're [0:46] using to get the right service levels [0:51] 24/7 from your your present way of doing [0:56] things your to uncover problems that way [0:59] no what's happened is this those problem [1:05] questions aren't quite as easy to ask [1:09] and surefire as they used to be if you [1:13] say do you have problems with your [1:15] present equipment know most people say [1:18] no it's working okay whereas 30 years [1:21] ago when things were much less reliable [1:23] you could be pretty sure that be an [1:25] answer there that you could use so [1:28] that's one change but another change is [1:32] this so it was a curious one research [1:34] done in the last three or four years [1:36] shows that customers rate the added [1:41] value of salespeople as highest when [1:44] salespeople ask about future problems [1:48] not just about present problems I [1:51] remember I interviewed one buyer in this [1:54] research and he said to me you know if I [1:57] fall into a pit there's 50 salespeople [2:00] who can sell me a ladder to help me [2:02] climb out there's only one in 50 who can [2:05] stop me from falling into the pit in the [2:07] first place that's a way of saying I'm [2:09] interested in people who can help me [2:12] with the problems that have not yet [2:14] occurred and [2:15] just the problems that have occurred so [2:18] that's how problem questions change in [2:20] this new world of selling spinnin in the [2:23] 21st century
